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  1. #11
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    The Janka hardnesstest measures the hardness of wood. It involves measuring the force required to embed a 0.444 inch steel ball into wood to half its diameter. This method was chosen so that the result would leave an indention 100 square millimeters in size. The American Janka scale is in pounds force.

    The Janka scale for wood hardness list red oak at 1290, white oak at 1360, and hard maple only a little higher at 1450. Hard maple is the primary wood used for bowling allies and I'm sure you didn't have bowling balls dropped on the floor and I doubt any of you guests weighed enough to excerpt that much pressure. It would take a person weighing 300+ lbs standing on a sq.inch heal on the steel ball to make the indentation used in Janka test. The pins used in the heels posted by BRP has a sizable flat head and not likely less than sq. inch.

    I've seen stiletto heels worn on Southern yellow Pine floors without indentations and SYP only has a Janka rating of 870.

    I'm more inclined to think that you finish may not have been completely cured. Curing time is going to depend on the type of finish, number of coats, thickness of coats, curing time between coats, and age of the finish.
    Jack

    By the way are you sure that they are indentations and not a blemish, like fish-eyes, in the finish?
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 12-08-2008 at 12:28 AM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  2. #12
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    Talking Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    The Janka hardnesstest measures the hardness of wood. It involves measuring the force required to embed a 0.444 inch steel ball into wood to half its diameter. This method was chosen so that the result would leave an indention 100 square millimeters in size. The American Janka scale is in pounds force.

    The Janka scale for wood hardness list red oak at 1290, white oak at 1360, and hard maple only a little higher at 1450. Hard maple is the primary wood used for bowling allies and I'm sure you didn't have bowling balls dropped on the floor and I doubt any of you guests weighed enough to excerpt that much pressure. It would take a person weighing 300+ lbs standing on a sq.inch heal on the steel ball to make the indentation used in Janka test. The pins used in the heels posted by BRP has a sizable flat head and not likely less than sq. inch.

    I've seen stiletto heels worn on Southern yellow Pine floors without indentations and SYP only has a Janka rating of 870.

    I'm more inclined to think that you finish may not have been completely cured. Curing time is going to depend on the type of finish, number of coats, thickness of coats, curing time between coats, and age of the finish.
    Jack

    By the way are you sure that they are indentations and not a blemish, like fish-eyes, in the finish?
    tell that to the flooring manufacturers. they put that right in their warranties, you can also see how they came to those calculations on their industry web sites. Your analysis of stiletto heel dowel pins is obviously from someone who has no idea of the forces involved when one is wearing them or been around one who does. It is also obvious that you haven't walked in stiletto shoes, Jack

    A stiletto cap does NOT distribute weight it is all on the point. there is a certain striking force when one walks in them. runway models not a one of them weighing more than 120 lbs soaking wet dressed can compress mark up an oak or maple runway in minutes with uncapped and uncorked stilettos.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 12-08-2008 at 01:33 AM.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2008
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    They're solid 3/4 inch oak planks.

    The finish should be fully cured (I would think). I installed the floor myself, but I actually took the easy way out and bought the pre-finished hardwood from Lumber Liquidators. My house was in pretty bad shape when I bought it, so I have what sometimes seems like a never ending list of projects left, which is why I went with the pre-finished hardwood as a time saver. I can feel the bumps pretty well, so I think it is actually dents in the wood as opposed to just the finish.

    Argh! Why don't women make sure they don't wear high heels with nails sticking out!?

    Maybe I'll tile my whole house. I haven't had any damage to the tile work I've done....yet.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2008
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Oh, I forgot to mention that my wife bought a rug last night. It should cover up 3/4 of the dents I think. I think I'll stick to summer bbq's instead of holiday parties. Nobody wears high heels to a bbq.

  5. #15
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    If you bought the prefinished product........it's likely a ceramic finish and very hard. Not much chance of that denting without denting the underlying wood also.

    Downside - good luck getting steam to penetrate and raise the wood fibers back up.....and overcoating with more finish would be a somewhat dubious procedure. You *might* get away with scuffing the finish and recoating...or maybe not. The finish might or might not bond to the existing ceramic finish. If it didn't, you'd then have flaking finish to contend with. Not a good thing. Safest way would be to strip off..or sand off..... the ceramic finish and start from scratch. Ugh.

    (Oh....and I'll imagine that if you bought the pre-finished product....you likely have the micro-bevels along the edge of each piece of flooring. Not much fun to strip the finish off those or get it sanded off...without removing a considerable amount of wood. But that's the nature of the pre-finished micro-beveled stuff. I guess you could always consider giving the entire floor that "distressed" look by beating the entire thing with some automobile tire-chains. <G> Some folks really like that look and it does have a certain charm in the right setting.)
    Last edited by goldhiller; 12-08-2008 at 11:19 AM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Quote Originally Posted by jwdyott View Post
    ...I wouldn't think that more than 160 pounds would've been on the high heels.
    160 pounds on a 1/4" circle is over 3000 PSI. A 1/8" circle is over 12,000 PSI!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    160 pounds on a 1/4" circle is over 3000 PSI. A 1/8" circle is over 12,000 PSI!
    I have to ask, at what point in the stride does that 160 lb. woman have all her weight on one stiletto heel?

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  8. #18
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    I have to ask, at what point in the stride does that 160 lb. woman have all her weight on one stiletto heel?

    Jack
    Jack,

    calculate the pressure of a mass of 35 pounds set upon a horizontal surface area of 1/8 inch by 1/8 inch (on earth), express your answer in pounds per square inch.

    what do you come up with??

    (of course, you will be sure to post your answer on this topic string now won't you?)


    you are fixating your failed attempts to calculate "normal force" that is 'at right angles' to. Pressure is defined as the force acting normally per unit surface area. 'Normally" means 'at right angles' to. we calculate the pressure on a surface from the formula: pressure = normal force/area or P= F/A.

    ask yourself how many square 1/8th by 1/8th inch areas there are in a square inch (answer: 64).

    by the way most of those heel caps pictured would NOT be on a stiletto or kitten heeled shoe, and of those that would be several of those heel caps have a surface area less than 1/8" squared look again at the europins and those towards the top of the picture.

    further, if the entire heel tip is missing (both the heel cap pad and dowel) one could be supported by the receving hollow steel tube which is encased in the heel that receives the dowel pin that's even LESS SURFACE AREA.

    Calculate it with a 120 pound woman, still exceeded, and why a responsible wearer of stilettos always keeps her heels in well maintained condition. the body mechanics of walking and how that is effected by the wearing of high heels and/or stilettos you can investigate for yourself. keep in mind that in REAL LIFE most women behave, walk, and conduct themselves quite differently then street walkers and exotic dancers, most of us don't strut, stomp walk, pony kick (kicking knees up when walking) and flash our crotches in public, most of us wear out the rear and sometimes favoring one rear side or the instep side of the rear of the heel tips on our stilettos because we walk heel to toe as we transfer weight to the forward foot when we walk. most of us don't drag our stilettos or high heel shoes shuffling along the floor when we walk IN PUBLIC at least not when we aren't tired or are not walking on a sheet of ice when we're wearing stilettos, we'd look pretty stupid doing so and most of us wouldn't choose to wear stilettos in public if we couldn't walk on them without looking like a 2-year-old.

    finally, and for the original poster who surmises changing his floor to tile would be impervious to damage from poorly maintained stiletto or other high-heeled shoes: bad stiletto heeled shoes or even kitten heels, they (poorly maintained heel caps) are also notorious for damaging and destroying tiled floors too, even hard stone tiles.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 12-09-2008 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Jack,
    You had to ask.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: My Oak Floors Keep Denting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Jack,

    calculate the pressure of a mass of 35 pounds set upon a horizontal surface area of 1/8 inch by 1/8 inch (on earth), express your answer in pounds per square inch.

    what do you come up with??

    (of course, you will be sure to post your answer on this topic string now won't you?)

    you are fixating your failed attempts to calculate "normal force" that is 'at right angles' to. Pressure is defined as the force acting normally per unit surface area. 'Normally" means 'at right angles' to. we calculate the pressure on a surface from the formula: pressure = normal force/area or P= F/A.

    ask yourself how many square 1/8th by 1/8th inch areas there are in a square inch (answer: 64).

    by the way most of those heel caps pictured would NOT be on a stiletto or kitten heeled shoe, and of those that would be several of those heel caps have a surface area less than 1/8" squared look again at the europins and those towards the top of the picture.

    further, if the entire heel tip is missing (both the heel cap pad and dowel) one could be supported by the receving hollow steel tube which is encased in the heel that receives the dowel pin that's even LESS SURFACE AREA.

    Calculate it with a 120 pound woman, still exceeded, and why a responsible wearer of stilettos always keeps her heels in well maintained condition. the body mechanics of walking and how that is effected by the wearing of high heels and/or stilettos you can investigate for yourself. keep in mind that in REAL LIFE most women behave, walk, and conduct themselves quite differently then street walkers and exotic dancers, most of us don't strut, stomp walk, pony kick (kicking knees up when walking) and flash our crotches in public, most of us wear out the rear and sometimes favoring one rear side or the instep side of the rear of the heel tips on our stilettos because we walk heel to toe as we transfer weight to the forward foot when we walk. most of us don't drag our stilettos or high heel shoes shuffling along the floor when we walk IN PUBLIC at least not when we aren't tired or are not walking on a sheet of ice when we're wearing stilettos, we'd look pretty stupid doing so and most of us wouldn't choose to wear stilettos in public if we couldn't walk on them without looking like a 2-year-old.

    finally, and for the original poster who surmises changing his floor to tile would be impervious to damage from poorly maintained stiletto or other high-heeled shoes: bad stiletto heeled shoes or even kitten heels, they (poorly maintained heel caps) are also notorious for damaging and destroying tiled floors too, even hard stone tiles.
    OK, I come up with a rounded off 2240 lbs/sq.in. or 3500 lbs/sq.in. if it's a 1/8" diameter pin, so? I wasn't questioning the math, and although you lengthy diatribe is full of wonderful educational material about stiletto heels it still fails to answer the simple question I ask. At what point in the stride is all the wearers weight on one stiletto heel? By the way, I notice your contact area keeps getting smaller and smaller.
    Jack
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 12-09-2008 at 05:05 PM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

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