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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Stump removal, replanting

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    warn against using a chainsaw in the manner recommended and endorsed by A.Spruce's first post on this string.
    ***! The only comeback that could possibly be posted to this would be a quote from the most knowledgeable person on this site:
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    You've only proven you cannot or will not read and comprehend.


    I encourage you to reread, and hopefully comprehend, my original post. Maybe this will help ...
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    You'll want shovels, an ax, and a sawzall or a chainsaw. Keep in mind all safety precautions when using any of this equipment, as well as the dirt is going to dull the chainsaw chains quickly. Another handy device will be a come-along or a truck and chain to help nudge the stump and break it loose, again, observing all cautions when performing this type of work with these types of equipment.

    1. The use of the word or, used in this manner, would indicate that this is just one of several items, allowing for personal choice.
    2. Keep in mind all safety precautions when using any of this equipment would indicate that the user should make themselves aware of how to use the equipment of choice safely.
    3. Nudge, by definition from the Merriam-Webster dictionary means to "1: to touch or push gently." The meaning for the purposes of this post was "gentle persuasion"

    Blue Ridge Parkway, any assumptions about the type and use of said equipment are YOURS and YOURS alone, they are not mine.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    731

    Default Re: Stump removal, replanting

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    If you're up for a bit of a workout, then stump removal isn't that bad. You'll end up digging approximately 3 feet out from the trunk to get the largest portions of root, and depending on the diameter of the tree, anywhere from 2 to 4 feet deep to get below the tap root enough to dislodge the stump.

    You'll want shovels, an ax, and a sawzall or a chainsaw. Keep in mind all safety precautions when using any of this equipment, as well as the dirt is going to dull the chainsaw chains quickly. Another handy device will be a come-along or a truck and chain to help nudge the stump and break it loose, again, observing all cautions when performing this type of work with these types of equipment.

    If you've got hard pan, dig what you can, then add a few inches of water to the hole. The water will soften the dirt for removal. Once the stump is out, you can buck it up with the saw for firewood or easier handling to remove from the property.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    Blue Ridge Parkway, any assumptions about the type and use of said equipment are YOURS and YOURS alone, they are not mine.
    YOU THINK SO? INTERESTING THEORY.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed21 View Post
    I've dug out small stumps and it was a major workout. If the tree was as big as I imagine, I think you would be better off having the stump ground out, remove the wood chips as much as possible & fill with top soil. I would be leery replanting an oak tree in the same spot if it had succumbed to disease. If you know what killed the old tree, then an arborist or state extension agency should be able to tell you if you can plant another oak. In general a disease that effects one species won't hurt another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars1996 View Post
    I've done this before. I would discourage using a car, truck, etc. to do any pulling because it is quite possible to damage the clutch or transmission. Also, using the chainsaw is a very, very bad idea not just because of the dulling of the chain but because of the potential for kickback because if you are cutting roots there is likely to be some sort of compression or tension strain on the roots. A reciprocating saw is a much safer option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    ed21 has given some excellent advice. cougars has made some great points as well. most oaks will graft roots with others in the area. an arborist from the extension office or your local village is a local professional information resource you're already paying for with your tax dollars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars1996 View Post
    OH NO! I've made some comments and have been "Spruce-ified".

    This is the reason why, even though I have only recently joined the board, I don't make more posts where I just list my experience or what I did. If you do, it seems like the "Spruce-ster" is just sitting out there getting ready to chop you down..
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    the most logical choice when dealing with the stump of a massive mature tree is to use a stump grinder, you can rent one, or hire the work out. you don't pre-dig or undermine the stabiliy of the area around the stump beforehand, that actually makes the procedure more dangerous. if there was concern the former tree was diseased or have other same species oaks on the property you should check with an arborist or forester regarding precautions to avoid damaging the other oaks and controlling disease, they can also advise your best replanting options and precautions.

    since you are up in Massachusetts and the winter is fast approaching this might be a project that you may need to wait for spring/summer if the ground is already saturated with moisture or frozen and/or the activity might damage your lawn you'd know your site conditions better than anyone. you might get some estimates from professionals and then compare the pricing with renting and DIYing it, as fuel prices are coming down, folks are tightening their budgets with the economy, etc. you might find the price to hire it out, especially with work being scarce nowadays, it might actually be cheaper to hire it out as for the cash flow alone (they have to pay their equipment bills!) - one cavaet is to make absolutely sure that whomever you hire it out to has proper liability and workers compensation insurance sufficient dollar amount and that the policy is INFORCE both then you hire them and reconfirm that on the day they do the work.

    using or suggesting that someone use a chainsaw anywhere near the nose, cutting to the earth and confined in a pit is maliciously dangerous advice, please don't do it or even consider it! since you mentioned the tree was taken out to the stump it is fair to assume it has already been taken as close to the ground with a chainsaw or other cutting tool as low as was safely and responsibly possible by your tree removal efforts/service already, if it hasn't been taken to a stump already, and the tree was as massive and mature as you seem to indicate, have it professionally done, the stumping service should be able to do it for you.

    it is a good idea to consult your site survey to locate any underground features and have your utility locating service mark the area before any work begins.

    Ask This Old House and several This Old House projects have aired many shows on the process, the most recent earlier the current season on ATOH.

    by the way most oak species when mature HAVE NO TAP ROOT REMAINING. Mature Oaks rely on lateral roots and sinker roots. the lateral roots can be as far or farther than the reach of the original tree canopy and sinkers may be 10 feet or more from the trunk. As mentioned since a disease process was known or suspected regarding the health of the now removed tree, consulting the resources suggested previously before you begin would be wise, you don't want to spread fungus etc. some protection strategies for certain diseases that effect certain oaks include a perimeter trench and chemical treatment to the trench zone.
    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Spruce,
    I have to disagree with you. I have cut many trees and you never use a chainsaw in a pit. It is to dangerous and you have no room for error. Almost all the cutting would have to be done at the end of the bar which seriously limits control. And I believe should never be recommended.

    Using a pickup truck to pull a stump is also extremely dangerous for several reasons. To much strain on a cable or chain can cause it to fail with disastrous results including uncontrolled projectiles or a cable whip that can cut a person in half. If the chain or cable breaks and doesn't do damage the truck is in high rev and if it cuts loose the jolt or slow reaction can cause you to careen out of control.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    If you feel the need to have this stump removed immediately ....In my opinion ..... I wouldn't bother recommending renting a stump grinder. For the little instructions ( hopefully you will remember ) , the hassle of renting one , the costs ..... open up your wallet pull out $100 to hire someone that knows what they're doing take care of it for you ..... guys shows up ..... unloads the massive machine ..... grinds the stump .... you pay him .... he loads the massive machine and drives off .......couple of hours it's done. .
    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    .....According to saw expert Carl Smith,

    ...."The chain saw is the most dangerous hand tool that can be purchased on the open market. It requires no license and no training to own or operate it. An overall average of 40,000 injuries and deaths occur annually in the US. This figure is just the "reported" accidents given by hospitals willing or able to furnish the information. That figure does not include out-patient visits to the doctor."....
    ...How big a hole would you have to dig to meet these safety requirements to cut the roots.For safe operation you also need enough room to use the saw without standing or kneeling directly behind the blade in case of kickback. With the chain moving at approximately 45 mph, if it encounters a stone you can have a deadly projectile. Chain breaks are helpful but are no guarantee against injury if you encounter kickback.Yes, chainsaws are extremely dangerous and even many professionals get injured and killed every year.
    Jack
    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    do have nearly 40 years experience using a chain saw and have lost several friends who where professional loggers due to chainsaw accidents.
    Jack
    It seems I wasn't ALONE in those concerns, not even alone in who you attacked for them you also trashed Cougars. I offered support of ed21's and Cougar's advice and additional information not touched upon previously as well as proffered rebuttal to several of your assertions and disagreed strongly with any recommendation to use a chainsaw in the manner you endorsed. It is YOU who suffer from a myopic distortion of this string.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    32

    Default Re: Stump removal, replanting

    "Anyhow, I intend to try and dig at least some significant portion of this old giant out and try to replant a tree in its place or very nearby if I can. Any recommendations on that?"

    I'd recommend hiring a stump grinding service. You can save money by having the stump ground to just below ground level and covering the rest with soil. You can save even more money by doing the cleanup yourself. I used to run a self-propelled stump grinder for the tree service I worked for. We could do a large stump in an hour. With a small two-wheel rental grinder, it would take you several hours and give you a nice backache. I would not try cutting, digging or pulling it out unless you have machinery to do so (I have failed using both a bobcat and a tractor on a large stump before). A large track hoe would work well.

    "Are the rotting roots of the great beast going to negatively impact a new tree?" Nope, as long as your new root ball does not rest directly on a large old root.

    "Is there a chance that disease from the tree still exists there?" Yes - Bacterial leaf scorch, oak wilt, armillaria, etc. can still exist in dead roots, and can be transmitted to newly planted susceptible species. What did the tree die from?

    "Will the rotting render the soil unstable?" No. You may develop small pockets in the soil, but bear in mind that the roots will rot over several years, and your freeze-thaw cycles should disguise most any changes.

    "What is the right season to plant an oak tree?" Either spring or fall, while soil is not frozen. In spring, plant before bud break. Pay attention to planting depth - don't go too deep!


    By the way - are there any moderators on this forum? These guys are terribly annoying, and have probably driven off the original poster.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Stump removal, replanting

    Quote Originally Posted by mpriley05 View Post
    By the way - are there any moderators on this forum? These guys are terribly annoying, and have probably driven off the original poster.
    Supposedly there are.

    Fact is there really wouldn't be any need of mods in that we all get along just fine with one another (and did so for years)...save for the notable exception of BRP and her numerous current aliases. Has been banned from the forum several times already, but keeps sneaking back in....time and time again. During her several abscences there were again zero problems or tirades. I think that says it all.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Stump removal, replanting

    Quote Originally Posted by mpriley05 View Post
    "Anyhow, I intend to try and dig at least some significant portion of this old giant out and try to replant a tree in its place or very nearby if I can. Any recommendations on that?"

    I'd recommend hiring a stump grinding service. You can save money by having the stump ground to just below ground level and covering the rest with soil. You can save even more money by doing the cleanup yourself. I used to run a self-propelled stump grinder for the tree service I worked for. We could do a large stump in an hour. With a small two-wheel rental grinder, it would take you several hours and give you a nice backache. I would not try cutting, digging or pulling it out unless you have machinery to do so (I have failed using both a bobcat and a tractor on a large stump before). A large track hoe would work well.

    "Are the rotting roots of the great beast going to negatively impact a new tree?" Nope, as long as your new root ball does not rest directly on a large old root.

    "Is there a chance that disease from the tree still exists there?" Yes - Bacterial leaf scorch, oak wilt, armillaria, etc. can still exist in dead roots, and can be transmitted to newly planted susceptible species. What did the tree die from?

    "Will the rotting render the soil unstable?" No. You may develop small pockets in the soil, but bear in mind that the roots will rot over several years, and your freeze-thaw cycles should disguise most any changes.

    "What is the right season to plant an oak tree?" Either spring or fall, while soil is not frozen. In spring, plant before bud break. Pay attention to planting depth - don't go too deep!


    By the way - are there any moderators on this forum? These guys are terribly annoying, and have probably driven off the original poster.
    Very nice post on-topic mpriley.

    Original poster not only returned to the board during active on-topic posting this thread; but amongst other activities, selected board friends on Xmas Eve.

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