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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    731

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    here is a link to a NAIMA document i think you should check out.

    http://www.naima.org/pages/resources.../pdf/MB316.PDF

    this link has useful example pictures: http://www.metalbuildinginsulation.c...mePoleBldg.htm

    as mentioned your truss diagrams have the limits of loading within the truss. overloading the loft trusses or loading in the zero zone can cause issues all that dead load gets transfered to the bottom chord on points of the web not spread out to the air. questions on the camber and strength or how to read the engineered diagrams you can refer to your supplier. would never use household kraft faced fiberglass in metal sheathed and roofed pole building.

    i wouldn't assume you have room-in-attic trusses, most common is a storage-in-attic truss big difference, storage-in-attic truss is not designed to be finished beyond a loft floor - big difference! if room-in-attic trusses they still are limited to loading and finish materials especially metal pole building.

    good luck to you.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 11-19-2008 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,622

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    here is a link to a NAIMA document i think you should check out.

    http://www.naima.org/pages/resources.../pdf/MB316.PDF

    this link has useful example pictures: http://www.metalbuildinginsulation.c...mePoleBldg.htm

    as mentioned your truss diagrams have the limits of loading within the truss. overloading the loft trusses or loading in the zero zone can cause issues all that dead load gets transfered to the bottom chord on points of the web not spread out to the air. questions on the camber and strength or how to read the engineered diagrams you can refer to your supplier. would never use household kraft faced fiberglass in metal sheathed and roofed pole building.

    i wouldn't assume you have room-in-attic trusses, most common is a storage-in-attic truss big difference, storage-in-attic truss is not designed to be finished beyond a loft floor - big difference! if room-in-attic trusses they still are limited to loading and finish materials especially metal pole building.

    good luck to you.
    BRP,I think the concern about loading was answered by the OP when he stated "Yes, the trusses were indeed designed to carry the load of power tools and all, and be finished."
    However your point about kraft backed insulation is a very valid point.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    BRP,I think the concern about loading was answered by the OP when he stated "Yes, the trusses were indeed designed to carry the load of power tools and all, and be finished."
    However your point about kraft backed insulation is a very valid point.
    Jack
    actually after all the unqualified statements wild assumptions and personal attacks from others that littered this topic string i went the extra mile and visited his forum

    (found the web address BEFORE he posted on this string today, by going to his photo page home page http://theamcpages.com and saw the april blog post) this morning and saw his post regarding the truss diagram bad photo copy he had where he stated the loft area was spec'd 40 psf live load and 10 psf dead load. Just as I suspected since he had referred to this as a LOFT and the ceiling clearances! http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_p...?TID=7044&PN=2

    10 lbs psf dead load would be exceeded by 1/2" drywall one layer and support "rails" or purlins for nailers on the "walls" and an enclosed "ceiling" for the loft area (8.9 lbs psf DL plus insulation and "nailers" for just the "walls") this gets transfered to the point load on the chord which are 2' OC. he proposes to insulate the loft "room" not the building's roof that's additional DL. his photo pages show 8' lights loaded and romex that's additional load. if he gets a stamped original of his truss diagrams he'll see that the area beyond the loft is likely rated zero psf or nearly zero DL and LL for the area so his installed niche storage would be a no-no and he'd have additional DL on the loft "walls" which transfers to the chords. The 3/4" plywood floor is already loading the loft zone DL on the storage trusses.

    10 lbs psf DL indicates a storage-in-attic unfinished loft was designed for not room-in-attic trusses.

    acoustical insulated ceiling panels plus track system equals about two pounds per square foot loading installed.

    probably saved about three to four thousand net by not opting for the room-in-attic trusses for the building upgrade. bottom line, the building isn't designed to do with what he stated his plans were to do up in the loft area according to what he stated on his own forum about the truss diagram. the "garage" area below was designed to be finished but the loft area was NOT designed to be finished as he intends.

    i'm suspect of his insulation and poly job before he finished garage area due to his in progress photos no sealing on the poly use of poly and pink etc. and his bug complaints dont see rodent protection either on his web page and his lack of info regarding the building ventillation issues.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    The building was done by a crew who have done many dozens of not only storage, but shop and business buildings as well.
    The building was put up, floor poured, then insulation put in, plastic put up, then the steel. the walls are fully insulated and sealed with vapor barrier on the inside, the ceiling done the same - plastic was put up, then the steel ceiling. The insulation was then put in from above, leaving the very ends open to allow air to get in through the vented sofits (sp)up along the lower side of the roof steel, then out the ridge vent system. I put pink foam in between the boards on the ends, then put up a sheet of heavy plastic, then sheetrock. When the upstairs walls and ceiling area are done, there will still be plenty of room for air to flow in the lower vents, along the roof and out the ridge. A lot like I've done house attics - allow air to come in and rise and go out, not blocking air to the bottside, or underside of the roof panels.
    the supplier was told it "is going to be a finished woodworking shop with all of my tools carried up there" so fully intended it to be finished. Like I said, I told them that from day 1. They always knew it would be finished, always new it would be tools and storage and work area. That was never left a question, and again, that is why they called me back, to ask if they could beef things up a bit.
    I was at one time the properties manager for On With Life, Inc, in Ankeny and oversaw the finishing up of their building. I was hired just after it was framed. I pick things up pretty quickly.

    The lower level is made and finished as good as any building I've ever seen used for garage/shop/storage. The concrete is against the outer steel, the inner wall sits on the concrete. I could NOT talk the concrete contractor into laying plastic sheet under the concrete. He was an old fellow who argued and argued and finally threw a fit and said it would cost so much more I finally gave in since the OTHER crew was sitting waiting on him so they could get back in and finish the interior. (I painted the concrete with Behr 1-part epoxy concrete finish. Not as nice as 2-part epoxy, but works)
    I call EVERY single upper area in ANY garage or shop or work area a loft. This is Iowa, that's what we call 'em. So my OTHER garage has a "loft" too even though it's a STEEL BRIDGE I-BEAM supporting it with 2x7's spanning only 14' spaced 16" apart. I could put my engines up there, but it's a loft since it's the upper level of a garage or shop, not a house. If it's a house, it's the upper story, if it's a garage, it's loft in this part of the county. So please don't let a single word define the strength or lack there-of. Semantics..........

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    OK, on the height - this county has a limit on how "tall" or the total height of an "outbuilding". So to comply, we had to keep the total height within limits but still give me a full 14' lower wall for a future lift. We missed, but they passed me. We were about 6" or so over max height of the building.

    The bugs - found where they are getting in - the foam seals that are supposed to go under the roof panels, a couple apparently came out, leaving large openings at the bottoms of some roof panels for bugs to fly into the upper story area, wasps, etc. I can seal those. It's well vented in the vents under the eves then up through the ridge vent system. It will vent even after finished to keep condensation, etc. from collecting on the underside of the roof panels. Just like our house. The insulation doesn't block the eves or anywhere along the roof.

    The lower area is almost always a full 10 degrees cooler (in the summer, that is!) than the outside temps unless you open the doors. It's well sealed.
    I'd be surprised to see any rodents in there unless they ate up through the poles, but then, there's no openings into the lower level area, steel covers everything - EVERYTHING. There are no openings for anything to get in save for door openings, etc.

    Insulation - I use kraft as I can staple it in place, I'm putting plastic on after the insulation, then the sheetrock or whatever.
    Last edited by BillD; 11-19-2008 at 08:39 PM.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    well bill it looks like you may have a handle on who you are dealing with. which will help in keeping things in perspective. My biggest complaint is unless you come to north florida to help build me one I will just have to stick to being jealous over your nice shop/garage.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Quote Originally Posted by BillD View Post
    it's loft in this part of the county. So please don't let a single word define the strength or lack there-of. Semantics..........
    Quote Originally Posted by BillD View Post
    I'd be surprised to see any rodents in there unless they ate up through the poles, but then, there's no openings into the lower level area, steel covers everything - EVERYTHING. There are no openings for anything to get in save for door openings, etc.

    Insulation - I use kraft as I can staple it in place, I'm putting plastic on after the insulation, then the sheetrock or whatever.
    I didn't. I asked you for those specs and even posted a gambrel storage-in-truss diagram and pointed out where you'd find the information. You didn't share that information here even though you expressed concern on the loading of finishing your loft space in the original post here, so I let your posts on your own forum where you said that the truss diagram stated DL max of 10psf for the loft area your photo site pictures themselves. I provided links on the issues. you loose poly'd over poles and girts no thermal break then finished the interior with steel below and now going to use kraft faced household insulation above. you said you wanted to know how it was properly done and concerned about doing it right the first time. pointed you to the right information, can't make you get legible copies of your truss diagrams, call your engineer, understand why double vapor barriers are bad or read a link.

    good luck with your project.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 11-19-2008 at 09:01 PM.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    455

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Bill, nice summary and your dealing someone that has a virtual engineer's degree from Google University.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,622

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Bill the only problem I can foresee is that the roof is not insulated. Condensation can be a real problem with steel roofs and it would then drip down on the insulated ceiling or run down into the walls. However having a well sealed concrete floor may help cut that down.
    My barn doesn't have an upstairs room either, it has a hay loft.
    Jack
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 11-19-2008 at 11:24 PM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: "sheetrock" for my barn/shop

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Bill the only problem I can foresee is that the roof is not insulated. Condensation can be a real problem with steel roofs and it would then drip down on the insulated ceiling or run down into the walls. However having a well sealed concrete floor may help cut that down.
    My barn doesn't have an upstairs room either, it has a hay loft.
    Jack
    or ROT or POP THE TRUSSES

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