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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
    Thanks Ernie Fergler for commenting on GFIs not being installed on dishwashers and disposals. I ran into another state code NE.- the dishwasher and disposal have to be hard wired, no plugs.

    JLMCDANIEL thanks for the explanation of GFIs and kitchen circuits i knew it but it may help others.
    Anytime. By all means do the instillation according to your state code and what will fly with you local inspector. That is what really counts after all is said and done.
    PS The NEC does allow flex code for a FD. It is NEC 422.16{B**{1**. But then it will not pass your local inspection.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    The NEC says GFCI is required for receptacles serving the counter top in the home kitchen, it doesn't mention a sink at all.
    Jack
    Isn't there some definition as to what the space is where the counter top is located to determine the required wiring? If there is no sink would this be considered an area of permanent food prep and cooking?

    For example --- if the receptacles wouldn't be within 6ft of a sink then why would a GFCI be required ?
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    GCFI required
    NEC 210 (A) (6)Kitchens-where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

    The 6ft rule is in210(A)(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks- where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m(6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.

    In a kitchen the outlets on the opposite wall from a sink would need to be GFCI protected if they service the counter top on that side of the room.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Gottcha -- since I don't deal with the NEC just asking.

    We have specific definition of the space ---- like a kitchen --- where the GFCi would be required for counters.

    Now this comes up from time to time in residential where an area not immediately within the permanet food prep and cooking space that may have a "counter top" that's used as a message area ( i.e. phone, work , kitchen office ) or eating space.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    Gottcha -- since I don't deal with the NEC just asking.

    We have specific definition of the space ---- like a kitchen --- where the GFCi would be required for counters.

    Now this comes up from time to time in residential where an area not immediately within the permanet food prep and cooking space that may have a "counter top" that's used as a message area ( i.e. phone, work , kitchen office ) or eating space.
    But by installing a tamper proof GFCI you would always be covered under the NEC. And that should place a grin on all inspectors faces.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    Kinda funny really.

    Just beacuse an electrical circuit is in a kitchen doesn't mean it has to be GFCI protected --- it all depends on where the circuit is located and intended use ( like counter plug ins ).

    You keep mentioning the exception of the refrigerator which is more often than not located in a kitchen. What about the stove which is usally located in a kitchen?
    How about the microwave which is usually located in the kitchen? Or perhaps the lights located in the kitchen? Let's not forget about the wall clock receptacle ( though not widely used these days ) that is allowed in a kitchen.

    Key words are "exception" and "required".

    Though one would have to wonder if there was no sink in the kitchen --- would there be a need for GFCI's at all ?
    Does anyone ever trip those pesky breakers about every six months or so? To me it seems it is only "recommended" by those "experts" on home improvement shows. Since you are only exerting pressure on the trip spring and not taxing the actual inner working of the breaker, methinks the practice is rather useless and unnecessary. But that is just me.
    Any code sleuths out there willing to find that recommendation in the NEC.
    Last edited by Ernie_Fergler; 04-13-2010 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    But by installing a tamper proof GFCI you would always be covered under the NEC. And that should place a grin on all inspectors faces.
    Yep -- that's pretty much the case with some inspectors --- install ground and arc faults everywhere and you pretty much good to go.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Please don't get me started on AFCIs. I am running low on my meds as it is.....Just kidding they do serve a purpose.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Please don't get me started on AFCIs. I am running low on my meds as it is.....Just kidding they do serve a purpose.
    So does bacteria.
    Last edited by canuk; 04-13-2010 at 06:11 PM.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Does anyone ever trip those pesky breakers about every six months or so? To me it seems it is only "recommended" by those "experts" on home improvement shows. Since you are only exerting pressure on the trip spring and not taxing the actual inner working of the breaker, methinks the practice is rather useless and unnecessary. But that is just me.
    Any code sleuths out there willing to find that recommendation in the NEC.
    Is it really just a trip spring or is there an internal "ground fault" that occurs? It would stand to reason it would be the latter, though knowing how most things are made these days ...

    I know I don't trip GFIs as is commonly recommended. If/when I do test them, I'll use an outlet tester with the "gfi test" button in the middle. It's either that or stand in the tub with an electric heater, I prefer the outlet tester.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

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