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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
    Howdy , I am not an electrician. Great question is GFIs- dishwashers and disposals. Any licensed electricians installing GFI circuit breakers on these two items?
    Again opsee about code requiring separate circuits- again my limited knowledge was state specific amended the national code. After reading the draw from the larger disposals i can see why it is a good idea.
    What next not isolating microwaves? Sure its not code but since so much currant demand why not it separated if you have the room in the panel?
    Timothy,
    Most NEC requirements are minimum requirements.

    GCFI receptacles for counter top outlets are needed because most small appliances have 2 prong plug so are not protected from ground faults internally or if you drop it in a sink full of water or if you stick a fork into a toaster to retrieve the toast. Most large appliances have grounded 3 prong plugs.

    The requirement for 2 20 amp small appliance circuits in a kitchen is a minimum requirement in addition to other necessary circuits such as for a range, disposal, dishwasher or other high usage appliances. That's why an electrician does a load calculation. Exceeding code is almost aways acceptable.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  2. #22
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    Shamokin, Pa.
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    645

    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
    Howdy , I am not an electrician. Great question is GFIs- dishwashers and disposals. Any licensed electricians installing GFI circuit breakers on these two items?
    Again opsee about code requiring separate circuits- again my limited knowledge was state specific amended the national code. After reading the draw from the larger disposals i can see why it is a good idea.
    What next not isolating microwaves? Sure its not code but since so much currant demand why not it separated if you have the room in the panel?
    Seek and ye shall find.
    NEC 422.16{B**{4** range hoods & microwaves may be cord and plug connected if the receptacle is accessible and supplied from an individual circuit. {Microwave ovens are usually supplied by a dedicated circuit, 12/2 w ground CU NU cable.**
    I never see nor do I personally install DWs or FDs on a GFCI.
    Last edited by Ernie_Fergler; 04-11-2010 at 02:07 PM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Oh and by the way, when someone says nobody else knows what they are talking about instead of having a legitimate discussion, you can be sure that someone is taking out of the wrong end. Maybe it's a helper thing.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #24
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Seek and ye shall find.
    NEC 422.16{B**{4** range hoods & microwaves may be cord and plug connected if the receptacle is accessible and supplied from an individual circuit. {Microwave ovens are usually supplied by a dedicated circuit, 12/2 w ground CU NU cable.**
    I never see nor do I personally install DWs or FDs on a GFCI.
    Thanks Ernie Fergler for commenting on GFIs not being installed on dishwashers and disposals. I ran into another state code NE.- the dishwasher and disposal have to be hard wired, no plugs.

    JLMCDANIEL thanks for the explanation of GFIs and kitchen circuits i knew it but it may help others.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    That's enough Deadshort, he spelled everything correctly.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  6. #26

    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Seek and ye shall find.
    NEC 422.16{B**{4** range hoods & microwaves may be cord and plug connected if the receptacle is accessible and supplied from an individual circuit. {Microwave ovens are usually supplied by a dedicated circuit, 12/2 w ground CU NU cable.**
    I never see nor do I personally install DWs or FDs on a GFCI.
    And look, a range hood or microwave. Plus the only dishwashers that are cord and plug type is the moveable ones, not ones under a cabneit.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Dead short what an interesting method of instructing others. Can see Inspector in your future.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by electricianhelper View Post
    And look, a range hood or microwave. Plus the only dishwashers that are cord and plug type is the moveable ones, not ones under a cabneit.

    And your point is ????
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by electricianhelper View Post
    What code? The 2008 code just says at least two 20AMP small aplliance branch circuits and with them being of the GFCI protected. The light circuit is seperate. The only execption the code has is the refridgerator can have it's own circuit. As far as moving the GFCI down the circuit, that's against code because the whole circuit wouldn't be GFCI protected. What you can do is take the dishwasher and the disposal off that circuit and place them on the same circuit, but sperate from the other 2 circuits. I would still have to be 20AMP and also GFCI proctected since it will be in the kitchen.

    Source: NEC 2008 edition code Article 210.52.B.1 exception Number 2. also Article 210.52.B.3
    Quote Originally Posted by electricianhelper View Post
    You guys don't know what your talking about. I like it when people claim they are electricians meanwhile they are not. Lets see, putting an appliance that is around water don't need to be GFCI protected? That's like saying you should keep a hand gun loaded so someone can shoot you. It's common sense which some people lack, and I can see who. Yes it may not be a small appliance, but being part of a kitchen circuit it has to be. And as far as placing a GFCI "upstream" that means circuits won't be GFCI protected, just the GFCI itself. If you people are "electricians", what must you do every six months with your breakers and why is it recommended? The only exception that an appliance don't have to be included in one of the 2 20AMP GFCI protected circuits is that of a refrigerator.
    Kinda funny really.

    Just beacuse an electrical circuit is in a kitchen doesn't mean it has to be GFCI protected --- it all depends on where the circuit is located and intended use ( like counter plug ins ).

    You keep mentioning the exception of the refrigerator which is more often than not located in a kitchen. What about the stove which is usally located in a kitchen?
    How about the microwave which is usually located in the kitchen? Or perhaps the lights located in the kitchen? Let's not forget about the wall clock receptacle ( though not widely used these days ) that is allowed in a kitchen.

    Key words are "exception" and "required".

    Though one would have to wonder if there was no sink in the kitchen --- would there be a need for GFCI's at all ?
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    Kinda funny really.
    Though one would have to wonder if there was no sink in the kitchen --- would there be a need for GFCI's at all ?
    The NEC says GFCI is required for receptacles serving the counter top in the home kitchen, it doesn't mention a sink at all.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

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