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  1. #11
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    Dec 2009
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    MIchigan
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    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    Paper facing does not create a cavity resonance. Data completely supports this.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    The Great White North
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    4,045

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    Okey dokey .

    Are you saying the paper backing does not generate a sound when a force is applied to it?
    Last edited by canuk; 03-24-2010 at 10:33 AM.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  3. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    980

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    resilient channel is used nation wide in commercial construction and is very effective as is proven from its track record of use. http://www.jm.com/insulation/buildin...undcontrol.pdf
    read the discription and you will see they are talking about unfaced as well as they recommend resilient channel.

    but of course you may know companies products better then the ones who manufacture them.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2009
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    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    That's a spec sheet from a fiberglass manufacturer. They don't make metal components.

    Well, they mention resilient channel but that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. What kind of resilient channel? 20 gauge? 25 gauge? Solid, slotted, perforated or creased?

    There is no standard for the construction of resilient channel, so anyone who can bend steel components with a break are on their own with the design. No SSMA spec at all. Not comforting.

    Purportedly 85% is installed incorrectly. Upside down, short circuited, crushed, overloaded, etc.

    Have a look at the National Council of Acoustical Consultants. See in the descriptions of what they do. See how many are expert witnesses in cases involving resilient channel.

    Lastly, I'll end how I started. Look at the relatively meager (20 year old) data.
    Last edited by Ted White; 03-27-2010 at 07:23 AM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    the holes aren't the important part. its the fact that it is attached only on one side which allows it to move so as to absorb sound. Have you ever used resilient channel? it generally always comes in 25 ga. never saw 20 ga. if is stiff this wouldn't allow movement and would be self defeating.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    MIchigan
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    68

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    I've tested resilient channel since 2003 in NVLAP certified acoustic labs. Riverbank labs, Orfield labs. I have a few papers writen about the overall topic.

    I've collected many samples in my travels and when you see the enormous variety, you can see why I'm a big critic. I'm not a big advocate of eccentric specialty acoustic products, and prefer to de-bunk them. You can create very isolated environments with prudent deployment of standard drywall and insulation. Many "soundproofing materials" are simply a means to extract money from people.

    The theory behind channel is very reasonable. The problem is that in reality, it's very prone to installation error and system failure. This is why it is the #1 acoustic product involved in lawsuits. Several ****** articles from acoustical consultants describing their time in court pointing out these

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    first I will say that just because it is printed on line doesn't make it so. and once again I will say that the problem isn't with resilient channel but rather the instillation. resilient channel is very affordablly priced but when you start going with sound control clips and hat channel then you start jacking up the price and the instillation process is actually much more involved. and these clips are easily damaged prior to the hat channel being put up as well as if they aren't lined up correctly it causes the hat channel to do some funny things. my point being is that any product can be installed incorrectly and it will cause further problems. resilient channel has a longer track record then sound clips with hat channel. as well as there are many different types of sound resilient sound clips and each claims their own advantage. but ultimately are much more to install, increase the price, and if both are installed correctly don't give any real advantage for the cost of product and instillation time cost.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    MIchigan
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    Absolutely installer error is a big factor. However if 85% (depending on the source) of installations are compromised, that's the great majority of installers, whether lowball subs or highly compensated craftsmen.

    Secondly, different channel profiles will produce different results. The function of any resilient system is to create a spring. The oscillation becomes the resonance point of the system. The lower the better. The resilient channel becomes the spring.

    So after being loaded this spring needs to oscillate. Say you have two sheets of 5/8" drywall. Maybe 4.5 pounds a square foot of load. A 25 ga RC-1 channel with excessive slots or perforations may be over-loaded (again there is no spec per the SSMA) and the system sags under the load. Now behaves like a suspended ceiling. No spring, and poor isolation. You could have installed that for the last 50 years. That's obviously not relevant.

    Perhaps you have a 20 ga. channel with no slots. I've seen this product and measured it as 20 ga. in a lab 5 years ago. It was from Home Depot. So let's install that channel. Very stiff spring compared to our first scenario. Now let's hang 1/2" rock on it. The "spring" created by the channel is now under-loaded. No oscillation, and again we have no spring and again we have poor isolation.

    And once again, these two scenarios are poor, even if perfectly installed, yet recall the manufacturer's estimate is that 85% is installed incorrectly.

    Regarding clips, they are much more robust than resilient channel. We're talking heavy spring steel, not 25 ga. Also given the typical 24" x 48" clip pattern, there is a fraction of contact area for conduction. Resilient channel connects to the studs every 16".

    Lastly, compare the independent lab tests of identical walls, one with any clip manufactured to resilient channel. Significantly improved performance especially in the low frequencies. Resilient channel just doesn't get designed into sound projects like theaters, recording studios or other areas where low frequency performance is needed.

    As you said, you get what you pay for. I'll add that clips + channel can be done for $50 for a 100 sq. ft ceiling, so we're not talking about a lot of money.
    Last edited by Ted White; 03-27-2010 at 07:24 AM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    once again these statements are easy to say where is the proof. the proof is only in the record that a product has established. resilient channel has stood up well in labratory tests. the only fallback has been if it was installed correctly. and using many of these different clips I can tell you they would be face the same "over load" as resilient channel would it is a simple factor of resistance and weight.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: Soundproofing basement ceiling

    these posts are to give homeowners easy affordable solutions to their problems. That is what I am attempting to do not make it more complicated for them. if the instillation is done correctly, it is the fastest, easiest and most affordable. has a proven track record.

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