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  1. #1
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    Aug 2008
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    Question Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    My husband and I are considering a permanent exterior coating rather than standard paint for our house. We have a two-story contemporary colonial sided with clapboard that is currently finished with a stain. Can we use these products over a stain? I cannot seem to find any objective reviews of the various "permanent" products out there. Are they more protective against wind-driven rain, as claimed? Also, how environmentally sound are these products? Several companies are based in Massachusetts. One is called Rhino Shield, another Lifetyme Paint. What about the "lifetime" warranties offered? What if the company goes out of business?
    Last edited by Robren; 08-07-2008 at 04:35 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    Robren,

    Look back in the posts. This topic has been discussed before.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    Hi,
    We are also considering these products and I am so surprised that I can't find independent reviews etc. I have searched these TOH boards for 'permanent exterior coating' as well as the specific brands and cannot find anything. Could someone lead us to the earlier discussions? We have a colonial with clapboard and an issue with no sun at all on the house front....so, plenty of mold.
    Thanks,
    Maria

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    Okay, I'll stick my neck out here and offer up a few considerations for thought.

    These permanent coatings are thick and they don't "breathe", so to speak. This becomes a huge issue when applied to wood siding...particualrly so when on a house that may not/ does not have an interior vapor barrier. Most older houses do not. Yes, if there are a couple coats of old oil-based paint on the inside of the exterior walls, this serves as a semi-decent VB, but it is not like having a layer of 6 mil plastic or better under the drywall/plaster.

    Even if your house does have a plastic VB on the interior, these coatings would still not be advisable IMO. Reason being that you would then have two VBs and this is a no-no. Any moisture that makes it's way into the stud bays, etc.......then has no way out at all. It cannot dry to the interior or to the exterior. Think terrarium.

    When warm moist air migrates thru these walls during the heating season/winter ...and enters the stud bays,etc...... it condenses and collects on the wood, the insulation and finally migrates to and thru the sheathing....where it then wets the backside of your wood siding. If enough accumulates and it can't dry out fast enough.......the wood siding suffers accordingly. If that problem is appreciable, paint will peel from the siding which should then be a heads-up that there is a problem.

    Latex paints are recommended these days over the use of oil-based paints for the exterior of the average house. One reason being that latex paints will allow the transmission of water vapor thru them (to varying degrees depending upon type of paint) ...and this allows for some degree of drying to the exterior side/great out-of-doors. If that moisture cannot escape, wood rot will follow. (Even latex paints have their limits as concerns the rate of vapor transmission. If you have a big interior moisture problem, they can still peel. This is most often seen on the exterior walls of bathrooms or kitchens where exhaust fans are not installed and/or used.)

    Coat your house with one these "permanent" coatings and there goes all of your exterior side "breathe-ability".

    Think about this: Tyvek, Typar, 30# felt and all the other house-wraps are designed to shed water droplets, while still allowing for water vapor transmission. There is a reason for that.

    Bottom line......I would not personally put one of these coatings on our wood clapboard house.

    There used to be a website (easily Googled) ....devoted to exposing the travails of homeowners who had these coatings applied to their houses (replete with photographs), but......they were sued and forced to take it down... a year or so ago.
    Last edited by goldhiller; 08-24-2008 at 11:26 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    ****hiller,

    This has been my concern with these products too. I have been on some of their websites and they claim that their product does have a good permeabilty rating. Who knows?

    I have also wondered about the use of "Dryvit" type synthetic stucco. These products use styrofoam as the base. Styrofoam is a closed cell plastic ( the cells are sealed and don't allow water to enter). This is why styrofoam is used for flotation devices. Does synthetic stucco present the same risk of moisture damage within walls?

    Back in the early days of aluminum siding, it was not uncommon for large sheets of aluminum foil to be used as a backing under the siding. I remember reading of HUD having checked on some of these homes years later and finding that the internal walls were rotting away. Again an example of what happens if moisture is trapped in the walls!

  6. #6
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    Jan 2011
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    Thumbs up Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    I am a new poster here, but have been browsing around TOH as I have rebuilt my New Orleans home since Katrina. I stumbled on this thread and thought an experience I had in 2007 may be of help to others here.

    I have an 80 year old 2-story home with lap cedar siding. The house has been in the family and was well-maintained prior to the storm, including frequent paint jobs. One of the most annoying things about living in New Orleans is dealing with mold and mildew; we typically hired someone to pressure wash our home every year (every other year if funds were tight). After Katrina, we were forced to replace about 30% of the siding wood and, respectively, needed a fresh coat of paint. We heard about a company called Rhinoshield from neighbors and on the local radio station. Skepticl, my wife and I had them come out for an estimate and to hear about the product. I was surpised to find out that the product claimed to make it where we would never have to paint again. The price was a few thousand dollars more than a regular paint job (not sure exactly what percentage more, but not exorbanant) and about the same as some vinyl siding estimates we received from our contractor and another local company.

    After seeing a few references and talking with others who had done it, we made the leap of faith to proceed with the ceramic coating. Obviously, I was most concerned about the breathability of the paint, but was assured that it was vapor permeable (sp?). Nearly four years after the job has been completed, I am proud (and relieved) to say that we got our money's worth. We have not had to have the house pressure washed due to mold or mildew, the color is still vivid, and the overall appearance looks as though it was painted recently. We have recommended this company to neighbors and friends on the Mississippi coast, and they have all had equally rewarding experiences.

    Although I can't vouch for other coating companies or those in other cities, I can say that we are most pleased with the decision to use the Rhino. This year would be the normal cycle year for new paint, and the wife and I will be able to do another project instead. Absolutely no peeling paint anywhere (even on the west side, which takes a beating daily). No mold or mildew, and no signs of moisture issues. We most likely saved the original windows by putting it on them. Overall, very pleased with the product and the company. Best of all, the wife loves it. Amen.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    5

    Default Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    As stated in another question, I am a dealer of Extreme Performance Permanent Paint. There is a big difference in coatings on the market. Rhino Shield has a "sticky" primer, we do not. Our primer dries in 30 minutes. Our perm rating which is the rating given showing breathability is a 50.4. That is the whole systems rating. Other products rating actually drop once the top coat is applied. The only reason that our paint will fail is because of installation issues. If any coating on the market is not applied thick enough, it will act like an ordinary paint....which, like ordinary paint, will fail in 3-5 years. Our warranty is 100% labor and Materials. You will never have to pay us a dime if our product fails. Big question, "what if we go out of business?" Then our warranty is also covered by our manufacturer, who has been in business since 1919.
    www.permanentpaintingnj.com is our site. We are based in NJ, but we have other Dealers across the Nation.
    Kevin

  8. #8
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    Portland, Oregon, formerly of Chicago
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    Smile Re: Permanent Exterior Coating versus Standard Paint

    So now we are getting down to brass tacks: "Performance Permanent Painting System is warranteed ... for as long as you own your home". Read: we know that most Americans move frequently and we are making enough profit to amortize the occasional failure claim. We don't really have faith enough in our product to make it a transferable warrantee.

    "The only reason that our paint will fail is because of installation issues". Kind of what I have been saying right along - Good preparation is imperative. Good preparation and quality new generation acrylic paints and primers will give excellent results.

    Unlike oil paints of generations past, acrylics breathe and stretch with the extremes of heat and moisture to which exterior paints are subjected. Failure of acrylic paints is most commonly seen when going over older homes where there are several coats of oil paint underneath. Every coat of oil paint was an additional vapor barrier. Further, oil paint gets more brittle with age. Indeed, many paint chemists caution against going over old heavy accumulations of oil paint. Oil does not expand at the same rate as acrylic paint and the acrylic paint can actually break the bond of poorly adhered oil paint and pull it off the siding! Of course, if you remove the old, poorly adhered oil paint first, there is no such problem.


    Brother Ordjen rests - Amen

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