+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Westom,
    http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html while an indictment against the local utility company’s up keep of equipment and their personnel trespassing,
    Why are you posting irrelevant nonsense. Picture is cited to show only one thing. The item that provides a primary protection system. Picture shows what to inspect when the primary protection system is compromised. Was that picture too difficult for your comprehension? No. Helpful is to read what was posted; not add irrelevant trivia. But any excuse to post nasty accusations is your purpose. Pictured is what a homeowner should inspect to have a functioning primary protection system. Is that restatement simple enough?

    tschmidt is a professional who does this stuff. You are a cheap shot artist who attacks only to argue. Which one has credibility? Only a cheap shot artist, trying to appear superior, would take a cheap shots at professionals and experts. Yes, we are discussing why you keep posting nonsense. It is not to learn technology.

    Did you forget to criticize the NIST? They also contradict your nasty accusations and 'Google search' conclusions. Why did you forget to criticize the NIST? Another responsible source contradicts your accusations. So you pretend NIST's facts do not exist?

    Ground is the solution for lightning protection. Protection has always been about where energy dissipates - no matter how much you distort reality. Ground is inspected first when a human failure results in lightning damage. Basic electrical knowledge says why lightning does not enter via ground. I will put the phrase that says why, this time, inside quotes so that you cannot miss it for a sixth time. It is called "single point ground".

    Did your Google searches forget to mention why single point earthing is so effective? Probably not. Ignoring that reality is how to create another strawman. Single point grounding routinely eliminates that and other similar problems such as ground loops. Why do you conveniently ignore what even your Google search made obvious?

    You don't remember correctly because you never knew of Ufer grounds until I provided that knowledge. Ufer grounds are more conductive grounds for so many reasons. Oh. Electric currents can ignore more conductive path to instead use less conductive paths? You posted it. Amazing how electricity now violates what was known even 100 years ago. Amazing what qualifies for education these days. This nastiness is what you started and want. So let's discuss whether you even graduated high school. Apparently not since electricity now ignored more conductive circuits. Your education is just too thin to justify that ego.

    Since Ufer grounds are deep in soil - always moist - then Ufer grounds are more conductive. A preferred ground often installed to avert lightning damage. An excellent solution for making surge protectors even more effective. An excellent solution because electricity flows in the more conductive paths - no matter what myths you might invent. Superior earthing - a more conductive path - was and still is essential to surge protection.

    So where is your cheap shot at the US Air Force? Oh. That Air Force requirement was so bluntly accurate that you could not take a cheap shot at the US Air Force? Could not cheap shot the ARRL? Could not dispute how grounding eliminated surge damage to a Nebraska radio station? Could not disagree with how Orange County FL eliminated lightning damage? Or were their sentences just too long and complicated?

    How strange. Even Sun Microsystems makes reality so obvious. So why did you forget to attack Sun? What would Rush Limbaugh do? Personal attacks. What was your every post? Disparaging remarks. Are you really Rush Limbaugh? Your memory seems to be so similar to his.

    Why was Ufer ground pioneered? So that direct lightning strikes would not cause munitions explosions. Ufer grounds or equivalent should be standard for all new homes because a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Oh. You forgot what makes direct lightning strikes and other surges irrelevant? How convenient. Then you can create more strawmen and argue.

    Bonding is for numerous functions. One of the better known reasons is human safety. Apparently that is your entire knowledge of bonding. Even your Google search said bonding does more. But that is what ego does. Makes you read only what you want to read.

    Direct lightning strikes with no damage are routine. Protection from direct lightning strikes is so routine that damage is considered a human failure. Yes, human failure is why damage occurs. Instead, Oh the stories you could tell? By conveniently ‘forgetting’, you never learned what was known even 100 years ago. Even sentences written back then required a high school reading ability.

    Informed consumers can learn from more responsible sources such as Polyphaser's legendary application notes at:
    http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx
    How will you take a cheap shot at Polyphaser?

    IEEE Standard 141 (The Red Book) also describes how surge protection works:
    > In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the process of
    > interception of lightning produced surges, diverting them to ground, and
    > by altering their associated wave shapes.

    Another source so that you can cheap shot. Strange how many professional know things you don't. So you take every opportunity to accuse and obfuscate reality. You really are Rush Limbaugh, aren't you.

    When you are ready, we can discuss your apology. Or you now have an even longer list of professionals to attack. Your choice.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by deadshort View Post
    Westom, please describe the "single point earthing system" that you have on your home.
    I already have.

    More interesting is a friends single point ground. 33,000 volt wire dropped onto local distribution. Over 100 electric meters literally exploded from their pans. Many neighbors suffered appliance and power strip protector damage. At least one had a damaged circuit breaker.

    My friend knows someone who undertands this stuff. He had one 'whole house' protector and earthing as defined repeatedly above and by post 1990 National Electrical code. He also suffered electric meter damage. And nothing else was damaged. Even the 'whole house' protector remains functional today.

    Unfortunately, there is no method to test earthing. We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient. And earth ground that is essential to human safety is also enhanced for transistor safety - even from a 33,000 volt utility fault.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The deep South
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    I already have.

    More interesting is a friends single point ground. 33,000 volt wire dropped onto local distribution. Over 100 electric meters literally exploded from their pans. Many neighbors suffered appliance and power strip protector damage. At least one had a damaged circuit breaker.

    My friend knows someone who undertands this stuff. He had one 'whole house' protector and earthing as defined repeatedly above and by post 1990 National Electrical code. He also suffered electric meter damage. And nothing else was damaged. Even the 'whole house' protector remains functional today.

    Unfortunately, there is no method to test earthing. We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient. And earth ground that is essential to human safety is also enhanced for transistor safety - even from a 33,000 volt utility fault.
    No method to test " earthing ? Wrong again , sport . Use your Google powers to search for " Fall of potential ground testing " or " clamp on ground testing " . Both methods are commonly used .

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The deep South
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by deadshort View Post
    ***! Interesting.

    Westom, please describe the "single point earthing system" that you have on your home.
    He ( or she ) won't . Better to hurl insults an accusations .

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by djohns View Post
    No method to test " earthing ? Wrong again , sport .
    No wonder you foolishly posted the myth about surges entering via the ground. You still don't understand 'single point earth ground' when it is explained so many times.

    In the Orange County FL and other examples - earth ground was conductive. But still not sufficient.

    A Duke Energy citation shows conductive earthing that still must be changed to create sufficient single point earthing.

    Earthing is an art. Many electricians who only learned code requirements would never know. The only way to test an earthing system is a surge - ie direct lightning strike. That is when humans finally learn if they got it right. Even direct lightning strikes should never result in damage.

    In one home, a single point earth ground was properly installed after frequent surges. And lightning still found earth ground destructively via home appliances. Apparently, a graphite vein existed on the far side of that house. Geology compromised the earthing system. Surge was still obtaining better earth ground via household appliances.

    The solution was to encircle the building with a ground ring. See National Electrical code Article 250.52(A)(4) to learn how that unexpected failure was eliminated.

    The electrician said nothing can protect from lightning. But then the home owner knew others who learn rather than just recite mantra. That ground ring was installed. No more surge damage.

    Unfortunately, we don't discover human mistakes until the final test - a lightning created surge. In most cases, it works the first and every time. When damage does happen, humans then hunt for and discover that human created earthing mistake. Routine is surges with no damage even to a protector. Appliance damage is directly traceable to a human mistake.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The deep South
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    No wonder you foolishly posted the myth about surges entering via the ground. You still don't understand 'single point earth ground' when it is explained so many times.
    I reviewed the handfull of posts I made in this thread and can't find where I posted anything about surges entering via the ground . Care to quote me ? And you are wrong about not being able to test ground resistance . Ask any electrical engineer .

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by deadshort View Post
    Westin, you are such a tease! PLllLEEEEEEEEEEEase! Pretty please post photos of your homes single point earthing system! I wanna see and sure others do as well!
    So, do you want me to dig it up? Ater doing all that, you have learned nothing. Send me a check for $20,000. That should cover it.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,560

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Westom,
    “tschmidt is a professional who does this stuff.” I have to ask what stuff? His blog is about networking, networking equipment, connecting to the internet, choosing the right antenna and preamp for over the air DTV, a wood heat controller, a bath room fan timer, and his interest in 1962-1980 MGB’s. While he lists himself as a consultant he lists no credentials or description of what he consults. Any one can call themselves a consultant.

    I have no problem with the IEEE or the NIST, I do have a problem with people using a line or paragraph to justify conclusions that ignore all other factors that are involved. I have researched a lot of their information on low voltage AC systems. I particularly enjoyed reading several of the articles about lightening strikes to the primary side of an overhead distribution system and how it would produce a branching of current flow into the ground system of a low voltage AC circuit after spark over of the pole mounted utility's surge arrestor. The resulting current flow on the ground system induces high frequency surges through electromagnetic and some capacitive coupling in the phase leads. ***, lightening surges on the ground system causing problems or do you dispute findings sited by the IEEE and publications of the NIST. They seem to confirm my nasty accusations and 'Google search' conclusions. Your conclusions based on single point grounding ignores the wiring of the system and the induction factors caused by the current flow on the ground conductors.

    You stated “We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient.” If it was the best single point ground possible according to your posts there should be no damage and how do you correct the best single point ground possible.

    Just about anyone who has been involved in electronics or electrical field or in the military in the electrical field since WWII has learned about the Ufer ground, however most people refer to it as “concrete encased ground electrode" which is also the way it is referred to in Code and most technical journals.. It is hardly a new concept that only you have the knowledge to impart to others.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,486

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by deadshort View Post
    Hey westist..
    Careful there DS, you may fall into the abyss that is the domain of trolls!
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
    Posts
    645

    Default Re: Whole House Surge Protector

    Quote Originally Posted by deadshort View Post
    Westin, you are such a tease! PLllLEEEEEEEEEEEase! Pretty please post photos of your homes single point earthing system! I wanna see and sure others do as well!
    I was trying to picture that in my mind as well.
    Inquiring minds want to know.....

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •