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Thread: patio project

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Default patio project

    I am having a stone patio installed next to my house. It is approx 15 feet wide and 35 feet long with a 35 foot long six foot wide walkway leading to the patio.

    The contractor graded out the soil, installed new drains and catch basins and poured a 4 inch concrete base (we're in central North Carolina) He is now going to lay thin (1 inch thick) stone on top of the concrete.

    When I asked why there were no expansion joints he said "no need to put them in as we're going to lay lab wire over the concrete before installing the stone on top". I called a local engineer who told me this is perfectly accectable, that the wire should prevent any shifting of the stone and it wouldn't matter if the concrete moved since the stone would cover it.

    There is 4 foot high stone wall on one side of the patio and my house on the other - should I insist that expansion joints be installed?

    Thanks,
    Ralph

  2. #2
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    Jun 2007
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    Default Re: patio project

    I see no problem with what your contractor has done as long as there are expansion joints between the house and wall. You should be ok with the wire on top.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2007
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    Default Re: patio project

    I failed to mention that there are no expansion joints between the house and the patio or the patio and the new wall.

    Ralph

  4. #4
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    Jun 2007
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    NorthWest Florida
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    Default Re: patio project

    I would think you would need expansion joints between the patio, wall, and house. Beyond that, you should be fine.

    Personally, if I were you, I'd ask the contractor to cut in expansion joints as close to the wall and house as possible before he lays out the wire.
    Tom Stangl
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    Caveat: IANAC (I Am Not A Contractor) - I am simply a DIYer that tends to do a lot of research. Contact licensed Contractors/Architects/whatever for the final legal word on any advice.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Glendale AZ.
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    Question Re: patio project

    Hi Ralph:
    What they are doing is perfectly fine. I'm a Design Engineer, and a Union Carpenter now of more then 30 years, and a licensed Superintendent for this state of AZ. & Ia. for over 10 years. Is there a reason why you are questioning the expertease of the engineer?
    Last edited by Wonderwarthog; 06-04-2007 at 03:37 PM.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2007
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    NorthWest Florida
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    Default Re: patio project

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwarthog View Post
    Hi Ralf:
    What they are doing is perfectly fine. I'm a design engineer, and a union carpenter now of more then 30 years. Is there a reason why you are questioning the expertease of the engineer?
    I think it is the lack of expansion joints between the house, wall, and patio that are the issue. While joints may not be needed within the patio, having them where it meets the house and wall seem to be a good idea.
    Tom Stangl
    Hidden Content
    Prius Visual FAQ Home
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    Caveat: IANAC (I Am Not A Contractor) - I am simply a DIYer that tends to do a lot of research. Contact licensed Contractors/Architects/whatever for the final legal word on any advice.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chicago
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    1

    Default Re: patio project

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwarthog View Post
    Hi Ralph:
    What they are doing is perfectly fine. I'm a Design Engineer, and a Union Carpenter now of more then 30 years, and a licensed Superintendent for this state of AZ. & Ia. for over 10 years. Is there a reason why you are questioning the expertease of the engineer?
    Try Googling "Kansas City Hyatt Regency Skywalk" or "Hartford Civic Center Arena Collapse"
    Is there a reason why you should not ask questions?

    BP

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    5

    Default Re: patio project

    Wonderwarthog,
    Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I am being overly cautious, I was not so much questioning the expertise of an engineer as thinking that I may have not explained the situation clearly enough. I called the engineer (I think the only one in our small town) asked if he could come out (I wasn't trying to get a freebe) and he asked some questions and made his remarks on the phone as he said he was just too busy to come to see the job site.

    Another consideration is that there was an existing 8' x 10' patio at the den door exiting the house onto what will be the new patio with a cinder block and stone wall across the patio (about 15' wide) so I was thinking that the new concrete and the existing concrete might not settle or handle freezing and thawing the same as the old existing stuff. Also, last year we had a different contractor contuct a similiar patio on the other side of our house and he placed expansion joints every 10 ft. on the patio and along the walkway leading to it.(which I understand is the recommended placement as per ACI (American Concrete Inst.)

    I'm thinking based on everything I've heard I should try to get this guy to put expansion at least next to the new wall which would give us some relief for expansion and then place the wire under the stone as he suggested.
    Thanks again,
    Ralph

  9. #9
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lexington KY
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    Default Re: patio project

    I am digging out from our existing 10' x 12' concrete patio to extend the patio out 16 ft. into a cross-sloping yard.
    I am not using concrete but a 4" layer of draining gravel and 2 in. layer of small gravel tamped down and lay some type of paver even with patio surface. There is a hard clay base but I am laying drain pipe on the lowest side to funnel water away. Is this the proper method of patio building?
    Barry Russell

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    2

    Default Re: patio project

    It seems to me that you really want the expansion joints. If that is the case, just ask for them. If the contractor refuses, get a new contractor. It's your patio, it's your money, it's your call. Hope this gives you some support.

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