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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    I'd certainly agree that the energy savings are worth any minor hassle. Its true that a 100w bulb only burns through 24c a day if your costs are 10c a kw/hr, mine are closer to 13 near me, but still. However, times 365 at my electrical costs and that is $100 a year. I might not leave lights on 24/7, but with my wife staying at home with the kids, usage at night, etc I'd say we probably average out over 150w all the time (when averaged).

    So in a year if I used incandescent that it well over $150 a year in electrical usage (about 10% or a little more of my electric bill for the year). Onerous, no, but using CLFs means that my electric bill is about 8% lower then it would be otherwise. The CFLs paid for themselves in less then 6 months.

    The slow 'warm up' time annoys me occasionally, but in most rooms starting at only 20% illumination (around abouts) isn't going to be a big deal. The only room where it is really annoying is my basement. Probably in part because of the cooler temperatures down there, but it is really dim at first. Only 2 can lights with 65w equiv. reflector CFLs. I'd love to upgrade it to 3 cans, but it would be a royal pain in the butt as I would need to drill through a lot of ceiling joists and cut up a lot of drywall to do it.

    I am hoping the price of LEDs comes down enough that it is worth while to buy a couple of them for those lights (they are the most used in the house as well as my wife and the kids spend most of their day down there, so a little extra energy savings would be nice as well).

    Now if only LEDs will come down in price a little, and get a little more efficient (the Philips LEDs that Home Depot near me is carrying are only about 70% as efficient as the CFL reflectors they carry in a warm color temperature).

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    What about the thermal load used to create these wonder bulbs? What about all the fossil fuels used to get them here to the US? What about all the jobs being lost in kentucky (where most of the incandescents are made) because the decreased demand for incandescents? What land fill do we burry these wonder bulbs in when we are done?

    Just saying there not the answer. There are things we can do with a real impact tho like;

    wrap your hot water heater
    insulate your attic
    use energy star appliances
    replace old windows
    turn the thermostat down
    have your ac condensor serviced annually so it operates at peak efficiency
    Consider a wind turbine or photovaltics (solar) in most states they can be financed with srecs and give a pretty reasonable return on investment (7-8 years) even tho there is obviosly a debate to wether or not global warming is BS, there is an artificial market to help you finance them, and clean air isnt bad either way.
    drive less
    recycle
    CONSUME LESS (imagine that personal responsability)
    Buy your meat from a butcher locally instead of frozen from a manufacturer 500 miles away
    CONSUME LESS (did I say that allready)
    BUY LOCAL PRODUCT (local to the us is a good start)
    Take into account how much you consume (of electric, paper, plastic etc everything) record it on piece of paper then make a goal to reduce that amount by 10% the next month. (reduction is only possable after realization, you have to know how much you consume first to reduce it)

    after all that if you still want to change a lightbulb get an LED bulb you can get them under $10 now

    and did I say

    CONSUME LESS

    CFL's are a joke and only compound are problems both enviromentally and economically.
    Let the name calling begin.
    Help us name our new Hidden Content

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    Incandescent requires mercury in the manufacture of the bulb, though not in the bulb itself. CFLs can (and I do) be recycled. The input energy of a CFL to manufacturer it is not significantly higher then that of an incandescent bulb, certainly much lower then what the CFL saves over its life time.

    There are no particular downsides to a CFL other then the long warm up times in comparison to incandescent and some people still complain about the lighting quality (though I suspect they haven't actually used a modern CFL, let alone a warmer temperature CFL, the daylight/white ones bother my eyes too, the warm color temps ones don't). Okay, yes the bulbs should be recycled, but it isn't that hard to do. Most county landfills will take them for recycling, places like Ikea will as well. I've gone through I think 4 CFLs in the last 4 years since I started using them. 1 was because I knocked the lamp over and broke the bulb, 1 was installed in an exterior light not designed for it (motion sensing with a circuit that ran power through the bulb to operate, so it prematurely burned the light out in about a years time), one was a faulty bulb that burned out in about a month from when it was new and a final one that just gave up the ghost after about 4 years of heavy use (both of which it seemed like the ballast died).

    In the same time period before using incandescent I probably averaged 10-15 bulbs that I'd go through. I can't imagine that 2-3 incandescent for every CFL means that going CFL causes a significant amount more waste in the production. Maybe bulb per bulb, but since my CFLs are lasting on average 3+ times longer...

    Also 1/4-1/5th the energy consumption.

    I agree with everything else you mentioned in saving energy, heck I do a lot of them. However, I am HUGE on turning lights off in rooms I am not in, using a minimum number of lights, etc, etc. Much better then most people I've met. If I can save maybe around 8% off my electrical use by switching to CFL I'd imagine the average person could probably save more like 10-12%.

    That would be like say turning down the thermostat 6-7 degrees in the winter or up the same in the summer. I think my 67F in the winter and 75F in the summer is far enough, I don't really relish 60F indoor temperatures in the winter and I know my wife wouldn't stand for it.
    -Matt

    PS I already have all energy star appliances, replace my 17yr old windows, doors and sliders with low E and foam core products, added insulation to the attic, replaced my old broken AC condensor with a high efficiency model, etc, etc. I am saving about 20% off my electrical usage every month, not taking in to account CFLs or programmable thermostat as I was using those immediately upon moving in to my townhouse. Still need a new efficient hot water heater though, my 17yr old relic is probably wasting quite a bit of electricity. That would be what the tax return is for (as well as replacing my wife's old falling apart car with a more fuel efficient one that can haul around our expanding family).

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,381

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    Has anyone considered the damage that fluorescent bulbs to young brains? They flicker, at a very high rate of course, but they do flicker. Adults can't see the flicker, but out flicker rate slows down as we age. It may be possible that the flicker rate of babies could be high enough that CFL's or any other fluorescent bulb may cause brain damage.

    Extended exposure to flicker can cause a condition called flicker vertigo. It may affect young children on a subconscious level as well. That could explain the increase is rates of autism and hyperactivity in children as more schools have fewer windows and more fluorescent lighting.

    Reckon how we can get someone to do a study on this?

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    All kinds of products flicker, we cant get rid of all of them....
    Candles flicker also.......
    Gizmo

    Cut it 3 times & it's still to short.
    Inventor of the Miter Master Plus.

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  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    693

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by keith3267 View Post
    Has anyone considered the damage that fluorescent bulbs to young brains? They flicker, at a very high rate of course, but they do flicker. Adults can't see the flicker, but out flicker rate slows down as we age. It may be possible that the flicker rate of babies could be high enough that CFL's or any other fluorescent bulb may cause brain damage.

    Extended exposure to flicker can cause a condition called flicker vertigo. It may affect young children on a subconscious level as well. That could explain the increase is rates of autism and hyperactivity in children as more schools have fewer windows and more fluorescent lighting.

    Reckon how we can get someone to do a study on this?
    So that explains it!...........

    Judge,"I can not be held accountable.......... I have flicker vertigo and can not be held accountable for my actions. "They" did it to me."

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    I would imagine that with a modern CFL (or any fluorecent light) that uses an electronic ballast there wouldn't be any flicker problems. Magnetically ballasted fluorescent lights have a frequency of 50-60hz and are the ones you get the hum from. As far as I know all CFLs use an electronic ballast with a frequency of 20-45khz. A child's brain certainly can't pick that up (as an adult we see around 30hz).

    They are more likely to pickup on the 60hz or in Europe 50hz refresh rates of TVs then they are from a modern CFL.
    -Matt

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,381

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    Yeah, I forgot to mention TV's and computer monitors. TV's are not recommended for younger children anyway.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Magnificently beautiful Sedona, AZ
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: CFL Bulbs: Love 'Em, Hate 'Em, or Both?

    My daughter had 2 CFL bulbs burn out after 14 months. We just had the glass cover of a dimmable CFL downlight bulb in the kitchen break and put glass all over the kitchen floor. Fortunately the CFL part did not break, just the cover and no one was in the kitchen when the glass broke.

    I don't think CFLs are ready for prime time. I am interested in dimmable LED lights for downlights and for 3-way lamps to replace 50-100-150 incandescent bulbs.
    Robert McGuinness

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