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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    666

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Okay, back on topic regarding 2008 code changes to the NEC and GFCI's.

    Yup, 210.8 changed quite a bit and many exceptions were removed.
    Used to be you could have a receptacle for say a freezer in a garage or unfinished basement be non GFCI protected. That exception went away.

    Interestingly enough receptacles in residential kitchens only receptacles used to serve the counter top need GFCI protection.
    Turn the page to 210.12 for residential rooms requiring Arc-Fault protection and notice that kitchens are not listed.

    This leaves refers and built-in appliances in residential kitchens not being required to have either GFCI or Arc-fault protection as I see it.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
    Posts
    645

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by mikefln View Post
    My understanding of the new code is that it has to be GFCI. I could be wrong I only looked over it breifly, but that was my understanding. But in PA they are not going to enfource the new code until 2010 anyways.
    I would worry about false trips.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    I would worry about false trips.
    I am not arguing with you, I think it is a bad code. But my understanding of the change is that it will need to be GFCI. Again I only skimmed over the leviton brocher with all of the changes, so I could be wrong. (these codes won't be enforced in PA until 2010) But at first glance that was my understanding of the code change. Again I think these tamper-resistant outlets, majority of the house being arc fault, no excemtions for frezers and fridges in basements, are now codes only because the companies lobbied for them so they can make more money. Unforutnatly I have no say, I just have to follow these codes, no matter if I beilve they are right or wrong.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
    Posts
    645

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by mikefln View Post
    I am not arguing with you, I think it is a bad code. But my understanding of the change is that it will need to be GFCI. Again I only skimmed over the leviton brocher with all of the changes, so I could be wrong. (these codes won't be enforced in PA until 2010) But at first glance that was my understanding of the code change. Again I think these tamper-resistant outlets, majority of the house being arc fault, no excemtions for frezers and fridges in basements, are now codes only because the companies lobbied for them so they can make more money. Unforutnatly I have no say, I just have to follow these codes, no matter if I beilve they are right or wrong.
    I agree with your post 100%

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by kentvw View Post
    Okay, back on topic regarding 2008 code changes to the NEC and GFCI's.

    Yup, 210.8 changed quite a bit and many exceptions were removed.
    Used to be you could have a receptacle for say a freezer in a garage or unfinished basement be non GFCI protected. That exception went away.

    Interestingly enough receptacles in residential kitchens only receptacles used to serve the counter top need GFCI protection.
    Turn the page to 210.12 for residential rooms requiring Arc-Fault protection and notice that kitchens are not listed.

    This leaves refers and built-in appliances in residential kitchens not being required to have either GFCI or Arc-fault protection as I see it.
    and yet i was told and have read that 2008 unammended requires every 120v 15 and 20 amp dwelling unit circuit to be arc fault protected except certain alarm circuits.

    edit: i found the article i saved it said something about redefining dwelling units and revised 210.12(B) and similar areas the article quoted a code making panel member, and basically said that any receptacle lighting or circuit not required to be gfci protected by gfci in a residential unit had to be arc fault protected except fire or smoke alarm circuits that were done by other rules. the article also talked about air conditoners and similar appliances now having to have some kind of leakage current detector interupter or arc fault interupter built into the cord plug or device now and something about part three or 440.21 requiring ground fault protection for refrigeration and a/c on 120v circuits.

    has anyone found tamper resistant gfci combo with switch?
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 09-09-2008 at 12:22 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lakeland ,MN
    Posts
    356

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    Nice pun.
    If you live up Nort you can put it outside and it won't thaw
    Harry

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    980

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens53 View Post
    If you live up Nort you can put it outside and it won't thaw
    summer is fridg and winter is freezer

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens53 View Post
    If you live up Nort you can put it outside and it won't thaw
    In the winter you got that right .... we have freezers that don't cost a dime .
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Tamper-resistant outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by havanagranite View Post
    summer is fridg and winter is freezer
    yep ... i guess it's all relative ... today's temp. is around the mid 60's .... finally some reasonable temps.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

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