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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    raidencmc,
    Let me see if I can clear up some of the stuff for you. First what Moon Googled is partly correct even though it is virtually incoherent even to those of us who do know electricity.

    MWBC (Multi Wire Branch Circuit)-That is providing 2 circuits using a 3 cond cable. Two hots and one neutral. The hot wires wired to separate single pole breakers on separate poles in the panel. If you checked the voltage between the two hot wires you would find that it is 240 volts because they are on separate poles but they share a neutral and from each hot to neutral it is 120 volts. These two breakers should be tied together so you can't turn off one without turning off the other. This is a safety consideration because if you are working on the circuit and only one breaker is off it is possible to get feedback on the neutral from the other circuit.

    You kitchen circuit should be separate from the outside circuit but both should be protected by GFCI. However, you do not need a 2 pole GFCI breaker. Moon apparently doesn't understand and didn't Google the real purpose or function of a GFCI.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    7,084

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Quote Originally Posted by raidencmc View Post
    You guys really some sort of Hatfield and McCoy thing going on. I think I am gonna start this in a new thread an please don't fight this time.
    Sadly, this is a troll that only goes away when yet another alias of hers gets banned, which unfortunately, takes an act of God.

    If you start another thread, she'll confuse you in that one as well. She enjoys using big words and convoluting simple problems with assumptions and assertions of her own. She makes herself sound knowledgeable, however, time and again she is proven wrong by the real live electricians that populate this site.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    32

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    I was a little off in my understanding of MWBC but it seems to make sense now.
    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    raidencmc,

    These two breakers should be tied together so you can't turn off one without turning off the other. This is a safety consideration because if you are working on the circuit and only one breaker is off it is possible to get feedback on the neutral from the other circuit.
    Some where it mentioned that the breakers are tied together so if one has a problem and kicks the other kicks as well. Possibly electric will travel along the neutral of the kicked circuit causing more problems as if the breaker never kicked? So I need to get something that physically connects the 2 breakers or run 2 new wires for simplicity sake?


    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    You kitchen circuit should be separate from the outside circuit but both should be protected by GFCI. However, you do not need a 2 pole GFCI breaker. Moon apparently doesn't understand and didn't Google the real purpose or function of a GFCI.
    Jack
    Both receptacles in the kitchen are GFCI. One is connected to a coffee pot and the other is a toaster. Can I parallel them together so they are on one 20amp breaker? I am just trying to free up the panel a bit cause I built a garage and would like the extra circuits for it and room up top.


    I am not leaving this house for a long time. I don't want to re-engineer the wiring in the house but if I am gonna make changes I want them to be up to code.

    With the outdoor receptacle I have 2 out back that share a 20 amp breaker and if I am changing things around I was gonna add the front to the back.

  4. #34
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    Jun 2008
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    32

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    I think it is sad you guys are not getting along. I did not think her info was to bad. It was thorough, but the delivery was not that great. Thanks to all who are still helping me out and thanks to yes Leslie.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    693

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Quote Originally Posted by raidencmc View Post
    I think it is sad you guys are not getting along. I did not think her info was to bad. It was thorough, but the delivery was not that great. Thanks to all who are still helping me out and thanks to yes Leslie.
    With enough ***** it will be okay....... Pats on head.

  6. #36
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
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    5,804

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Quote Originally Posted by raidencmc View Post
    I was a little off in my understanding of MWBC but it seems to make sense now.

    Some where it mentioned that the breakers are tied together so if one has a problem and kicks the other kicks as well. Possibly electric will travel along the neutral of the kicked circuit causing more problems as if the breaker never kicked? So I need to get something that physically connects the 2 breakers or run 2 new wires for simplicity sake? You can pick up a device at a big box store or electrical supply house to lock the two together or you could replace the 3 cond cable with 2 seperate 2 cond cables.

    Both receptacles in the kitchen are GFCI. One is connected to a coffee pot and the other is a toaster. Can I parallel them together so they are on one 20amp breaker? I am just trying to free up the panel a bit cause I built a garage and would like the extra circuits for it and room up top. By current code you need two 20 amp circuits in the kitchen for small appliance receptacles. I don't know what else you have in there.

    I am not leaving this house for a long time. I don't want to re-engineer the wiring in the house but if I am gonna make changes I want them to be up to code.

    With the outdoor receptacle I have 2 out back that share a 20 amp breaker and if I am changing things around I was gonna add the front to the back.This would not be a problem.
    If you need a space or two in the panel you may be able to install double mini breakers. They give you 2 breakers in the space for one.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Fayette County, Ohio
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    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Quote Originally Posted by raidencmc View Post
    I think it is sad you guys are not getting along. I did not think her info was to bad. It was thorough, but the delivery was not that great. Thanks to all who are still helping me out and thanks to yes Leslie.
    The problem is that when information is presented as authoritative but not based on actual knowledge it is difficult for those less knowledgeable to know what is correct and what is not.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    693

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    The problem is that when information is presented as authoritative but not based on actual knowledge it is difficult for those less knowledgeable to know what is correct and what is not.
    Jack
    But JMLCD knows what is knowledgeable....... LOL!

  9. #39
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    Jun 2007
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    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    NEC if you don't behave, I won't let you out of the cage tomorrow.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  10. #40
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    Aug 2007
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    The Great White North
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    4,045

    Default Re: Outdoor outlets and kitchen gfci

    Now , now ---- you kids behave.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

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