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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    On the commercial applications it is different than the capacitor bank that does nothing but correct for Power factor. They are placed on the static side of the load as close to the motor as possible. They are not going after power factor correction, but it does come as a byproduct to a certain extent. They are after KWH and the demand you mentioned. For commercial customers that get hit with a demand charge this is a big advantage. These products can work in conjuction with those that have the capacitor banks that just increase the power factor so there is not a charge.

    When I walked through the 2 commercial sites because I was interested in learning more we went over those things. I am convinced it works for the commercial side. I saw the electric records of a church / school that went back to 1993. Their average KWH per month was 11,200 then and had grown to 36,842 by 1995 and 40,005 by 2002. In late '02 they did this and thier average for 2003 was 35,878. Between that and the other reference letters that state from 10% to 22% reductions I know it works, commercially anyway.

    Now as for the home side it is the same principle, but you just don't have big enough power draws to make it cost effective to treat maybe 2 A/C's with individual power correction units so they treat the whole house so it actually catches the big appliances when they start up and run. I guess I will find out how well it works over the next few months, since I am already having to run the A/C here. My brother in law, who is in Omaha, NE put this on his house about a month and a half ago. He said he saw over a 40% reduction on his house in the last month. Now I know I will have to see several months, and with the A/C running to get a better idea. I really do appreciate all of your input.

    I guess that no one has heard of any other products that aim to reduce electrical use, but your skepticism of this is duly noted for a residential application. I guess I will see what kind of savings I get on the house. Again the initial reason for the post was to see if there was anything else out there that may work better. Just doing some research through different forums to get all the input I can. Thanks

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    I had to go find the info I had on the oil, because that was really new to me. The info I have on that was refrigeration systems (a/c's, chillers, etc) rely on a refrigerant oil to lubricate. This oil creates a build up over time on the condensing and evaporator coils. That build up then reduces the efficiency of the a/c. Adding their oil is suppose to replace that non-conductive layer with highly charged thermo-conductive compounds that eliminates build-up and dramatically increases thermo-conductivity throughout the system.

    OK, that was directly from the material they left me. On a side note thier pricing was either with or with-out the oil to do the house. OK, let er rip, guys - you are way more knowledgeable than me on these things.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,836

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    I'll give you my opinion and it's only my opinion. The oil in the system is a liquid the coolant is a gas. It is most likely that the oil stays in or near the compressor and is not atomized enough to be carried through the condensing coils but if it is and builds up a film, the coils would have to be cleaned before a new coating could be applied. Then what would stop the oil from coating the coating? I'm sure some of our HVAC folks will correct me if I'm wrong or confirm if I'm right. One question you should ask, do they guarantee you a certain amount of savings or your money back?

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lakeland ,MN
    Posts
    356

    Exclamation Re: Electrical savings

    Well sounds like you made up your mind go for it!!!! It is not my dime. How about reporting back on your findings. Keep in mind it is spring time so your load will change no heat and no AC.
    Harry

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    7,195

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    I'll give you my opinion and it's only my opinion. The oil in the system is a liquid the coolant is a gas. It is most likely that the oil stays in or near the compressor and is not atomized enough to be carried through the condensing coils but if it is and builds up a film, the coils would have to be cleaned before a new coating could be applied. Then what would stop the oil from coating the coating? I'm sure some of our HVAC folks will correct me if I'm wrong or confirm if I'm right. One question you should ask, do they guarantee you a certain amount of savings or your money back?

    Jack
    I tend to agree, Jack, and isn't there a device known as a "receiver/dryer" that is supposed to catch and condense moisture and oil to keep them from entering the condenser/evaporators in the first place?
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The deep South
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    I have yet to see any explanation of the technology that is being used . Similar products for residential applications use capacitors and I'm betting that's also the case here . The more inductive loads that you have , the more benefit that you will realize .

    40% reduction ? I'm sceptical about that claim .

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,836

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    Quote Originally Posted by huskerhydes View Post
    I guess that no one has heard of any other products that aim to reduce electrical use, but your skepticism of this is duly noted for a residential application. I guess I will see what kind of savings I get on the house. Again the initial reason for the post was to see if there was anything else out there that may work better. Just doing some research through different forums to get all the input I can. Thanks
    We have heard of a lot of devices claiming to save energy, from gasoline to NG and propane to electricity. You have furnished nothing on specifications or theory of operation. The web site you referenced gives no details of the products, their warranties, or data to support the claims. I am starting to think this is a thread started to promote a new product and not a valid search for information.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    OK, I got a more detailed explanation sent to me about the EOT. I know only what is says about how an A/C works - so I couldn't say if they are accurate on that part or not.

    Understanding The Cooling Process in A/C or Refrigeration Equipment


    Air conditioning and refrigeration equipment cool by transferring heat from one area to another through refrigerant. Air is drawn from the area that needs cooling, and blown through an evaporator coil which transfers the heat to the refrigerant running through the coil. This refrigerant is pumped outside through the compressor and condensing coils. A fan draws air across the condensing coils blowing the heat into the air outside the cooled area. This cycle continues until enough heat is removed to satisfy the temperature on the thermostat.

    How EOT works

    EOT is designed to remove heat from metal surfaces, accelerate refrigerant flow, increase thermal-conductivity and transfer heat throughout the equipment. It’s sophisticated molecular composition "passivates" and stabilizes all metal components throughout the system, allowing the refrigerant to absorb and dissipate heat at an accelerated rate.

    EOT allows the unit to achieve set temperatures faster while drawing less energy, allowing the compressor, condenser and evaporator to perform at their utmost design efficiency. Energy reduction may vary from 10% to 40%+ depending on the age and condition of the unit. In sealed systems, this one-time application lasts for the life of the compressor. Our proprietary application requires no down time of the equipment.

    Inside the A/C or Refrigeration Equipment

    Laminar Friction creates heat, drag, erosion, wear and tear, loss of energy and fatigue. Any material or gas that runs inside a pipe faces friction. When a fluid or gas runs through a pipe, the layer in contact with the metal surface creates a "drag". This layer also creates a laminar friction by "slowing down" the layer above it which in turn slows down the layer in contact with it and so on. The further away from the first layer, the faster the product moves. This creates a pointed bullet shaped curve (see picture). The center of this curve has less friction and moves faster than the layer closest to the internal walls of the pipe. The name Laminar Flow comes by the layered "laminated" effect caused by friction.

    When EOT is installed, its active thermo-conductive compounds having strong affinity to metals displace energy robbing deposits significantly reducing surface friction. When the refrigerant circulates through the pipe (condenser and evaporator), it comes in close contact with the metal surface enabling faster heat transfer, less laminar friction and better overall performance. (See picture). The energy that was lost to friction now is restored. There is additional heat conductivity, dissipation and less energy is needed to "circulate" the refrigerant throughout the system.

    Before EOT
    Refrigeration systems rely on a refrigerant oil to lubricate its moving parts. Eventually this oil and other chemicals migrate through the system forming an insulative, non-conductive layer over the surface of the condensing and evaporator coils.

    Over time this stagnant oil film build-up causes considerable reductions in efficiency and greatly increases maintenance costs. Through ongoing operation, this insulative layer continues to thicken causing an increased reduction in efficiency and greater energy consumption and can shorten compressor life.

    Oil trapped in the system will Reduce System Efficiency, Cause the System to Work Harder to Deliver The Design, Cause it to Run Longer and Use More Energy, and Increases wear and tear.

    After EOT
    Using the flow of refrigerant, EOT is designed to migrate into the system. By replacing the non-conductive layer of oil with highly charged thermal-conductive compounds, EOT effectively eliminates future build-up and dramatically increases thermal conductivity throughout the unit which lasts for the life of the system

    The compounds integrated into the technology contain polarity. As we know heat is energy and energy can be made directional by another form of energy, which in the case of EOT is the thermal-conductive compounds.

    By acting as molecular fins, EOT attracts the heat from the refrigerant & conducts it through the metal at an accelerated rate therefore increasing the systems capacity and reducing energy, resulting in more cooling action with less energy.

    Jack, I don't know what else to say to you. I told you I was interested in investing in this company so was doing some additional research since I am not an electrician, HVAC guy or an engineer.

    Cjohn - I agree 40% doesn't sound right - He is probably not comparing right. Thats just what he told me.

    Ravens53 - I will be happy to put out a follow-up report on this. I have my electrical bill from the last 4 years so I can compare use - won't be exact since the outside temp will not be the same - but will give me a decent comparison.
    Last edited by huskerhydes; 04-25-2008 at 04:02 PM. Reason: added comments

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,836

    Default Re: Electrical savings

    Very suspicious. The address and phone number they list on their web site is the address and phone number for "Clutech" a company that sells software for golf courses management. http://www.yellowpages.com/info-LMS6...aps?from=qpibp

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

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