+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1

    Default Does "Power-Save" really work?

    I saw a commercial for a product called "Power-Save". It is basically a capacitor that you can install yourself on your main breaker box that is "supposed to" save you energy by storing electricity to help start motors such as Air conditioner compressors, refrigerators etc. Can you tell me if it is worth the investment of almost $300.00? It seems to me that your Microwave and your A/C compressors already come with its own capacitor. So Howcan this really help?....Is this a scam do you think?
    Michael

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,557

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    I got some liturature on it. It's not a scam but it looks to me like the savings is going to be bsed on how many induction motors you have. I don't think it will have any effect with such ithem as microwaves or stoves. Just in impression I got from the discription of how it works.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,381

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    It looks good on the surface, but unless you are an electrical engineer with a power factor bridge, its probably going to do more harm than good. You get the most efficiency when the power factor is one. Both inductive loads and capacitive loads throw the power factor off.

    Resistive loads, which make up the majority of the loads in your house, do not change the power factor. Most of the motors (inductive loads) have a capacitor already. The few that don't are pretty small inductive loads and so they don't change the power factor a measurable amount.

    If you install a large capacitor, you will probably throw the power factor off and cause a larger energy drain, not a smaller one.

    The power companies maintain banks of capacitors to keep the power lines clean.
    Last edited by keith3267; 12-21-2007 at 10:08 PM. Reason: correct a term

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    You can lie all you want but it doesn't change that fact that the self qouted part was in the original post.
    Jack
    I am not lying. Now you've gone personal again in yet another of your many temper tantrums while you vacillate from your "everything I've read...not a scam", to agreeing it may be a scam, to personal attacks and disputing your editorial additiions and time stamps on your posts. You are an odd nut, indeed. Squirrels to you!

    Apparent Power is measured in watts, Real Power is measured in volt-amps. They (Apparent Power and Real Power) are not the same thing. That's the simple and correct answer Jack, but obviously a concept well over your resistive load DC voltage brain. Total Power, Apparent Power, Real Power, Reactive Power not the same things.

    You are not Kenneth Starr and I am Not Frmr. President Clinton. I need not bother with a dicussion on what your concept of "IS is" nor what TIME is, when you do NOT have a concept of what POWER is. Therefore for you to leap into the realm of Power Factor without a concept of Magnetic Fields, fixtated on Horse Power, or "bearing friction" in a power tool (motors are not the ONLY inductive load) and no concept of harmonic distortions, even if you had a remote clue you're already in over your head and buried yourself with your own posts.

    Power Factor is not just Displaced Power Factor, although the electric utility billing for this might want you to believe this because they want to maximize what they can get away with billing you for and minimize their costs to achieve maximum profit or in the case of a supposed non-profit, minimize their losses. Total Power Factor is something else entirely. Harmonic Distortions generated on YOUR side of the electrical system CAN cause higher bills (regular kw or va metered service no demand charges, no power factor penalties).

    Since Phase Lag and the sinusoidal componants are over your head not surprised that the non-sinusoidal componants are even more over your head, heck you originally declared on this string such items weren't a scam then decided to agree with me that the means to sell them to an unwitting public were scams.
    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Although "Inductive current, Harmonic current, and reactive power" are fancy words they are pretty well covered by "resistance, impedance, capacitance, inductance, and even friction of the bearings", BRP.
    Jack
    Nope I do not agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    OK, although Watt an VA have been commonly used interchangeably (1watt=1VA) by many there is a slight difference. A Watt is a measure of work or power. If you have noticed most power tools and motors now come with the label stating their voltage and their VA rather than Watts. The reason being that Watts can be converted directly to HP while VA can not. VA takes in to account the voltage and the amperage draw which is affected by resistance, impedance, capacitance, inductance, and even friction of the bearings. All of which affect the power output of the motor. If it was listed as Watts, as it use to be, You should be able to do a direct calculation of the HP of the motor.
    For instance you might find a motor that is labeled as HP and a voltage of 120 VAX and an amp draw of 12.5 amps. That motor would be rated @ 1500 VA but only 1491.4 watts. Not a great amount but still different. Could even be difference with Chinese motors.
    However I agree with the rest of your post. It just looks like a lot of goobaldy goop used in a sales pitch.
    Jack
    Although your regular habit of blaming the Chineese and their products for just about everything may indear yourself with several of your similarly minded self-proclaiming patriotic yet equally ignorant bigots it just further exposes your limitations.

    I'm not lying, I do not agree with your diatribes and conclusionary statements, as they stand presently (as well as their original form) posted on this string, they are not correct, mostly meaningless, and I do not agree with your claims that they are otherwise.

    As far as your temper tantrums and your practice of throwing much poo and creating much ado at nothing, your behavior and timing thereof when reminded of your first post on this topic string beginning back on 08-08-2007, 01:44 AM and subsequent actity to present only evidences yourself as seriously compromised, limited, and apparently incapacitated. Fully expect the flying cadre of alter egos to start the slam fest ranting "drive bys" to begin again shortly, they tend to show up firing whenever you and yours suffer from "open mouth, insert foot" syndrome and your pride feels wounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    I got some liturature on it. It's not a scam but it looks to me like the savings is going to be bsed on how many induction motors you have. I don't think it will have any effect with such ithem as microwaves or stoves. Just in impression I got from the discription of how it works.
    Jack

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,557

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    I am not lying. Now you've gone personal again in yet another of your many temper tantrums while you vacillate from your "everything I've read...not a scam", to agreeing it may be a scam, to personal attacks and disputing your editorial additiions and time stamps on your posts. You are an odd nut, indeed. Squirrels to you!

    Apparent Power is measured in watts, Real Power is measured in volt-amps. They (Apparent Power and Real Power) are not the same thing. That's the simple and correct answer Jack, but obviously a concept well over your resistive load DC voltage brain. Total Power, Apparent Power, Real Power, Reactive Power not the same things.

    You are not Kenneth Starr and I am Not Frmr. President Clinton. I need not bother with a dicussion on what your concept of "IS is" nor what TIME is, when you do NOT have a concept of what POWER is. Therefore for you to leap into the realm of Power Factor without a concept of Magnetic Fields, fixtated on Horse Power, or "bearing friction" in a power tool (motors are not the ONLY inductive load) and no concept of harmonic distortions, even if you had a remote clue you're already in over your head and buried yourself with your own posts.

    Power Factor is not just Displaced Power Factor, although the electric utility billing for this might want you to believe this because they want to maximize what they can get away with billing you for and minimize their costs to achieve maximum profit or in the case of a supposed non-profit, minimize their losses. Total Power Factor is something else entirely. Harmonic Distortions generated on YOUR side of the electrical system CAN cause higher bills (regular kw or va metered service no demand charges, no power factor penalties).

    Since Phase Lag and the sinusoidal componants are over your head not surprised that the non-sinusoidal componants are even more over your head, heck you originally declared on this string such items weren't a scam then decided to agree with me that the means to sell them to an unwitting public were scams.


    Nope I do not agree.



    Although your regular habit of blaming the Chineese and their products for just about everything may indear yourself with several of your similarly minded self-proclaiming patriotic yet equally ignorant bigots it just further exposes your limitations.

    I'm not lying, I do not agree with your diatribes and conclusionary statements, as they stand presently (as well as their original form) posted on this string, they are not correct, mostly meaningless, and I do not agree with your claims that they are otherwise.

    As far as your temper tantrums and your practice of throwing much poo and creating much ado at nothing, your behavior and timing thereof when reminded of your first post on this topic string beginning back on 08-08-2007, 01:44 AM and subsequent actity to present only evidences yourself as seriously compromised, limited, and apparently incapacitated. Fully expect the flying cadre of alter egos to start the slam fest ranting "drive bys" to begin again shortly, they tend to show up firing whenever you and yours suffer from "open mouth, insert foot" syndrome and your pride feels wounded.

    BRP It's amazing how often you make personal attacks, dismiss others opinions as "horse patootie" and then become a cry baby when the favor is returned. It is quite evident that I only loose my temper when dealing with a spiteful moron like you. You are a prevaricator and an obnoxious individual who goes out of their way to get under others skin.

    Just once I wish you would post something you actually know about rather than depending on Googled mishmash that you have absolutely no understanding. You posts are no more than "the insane ramblings of a lunatic mind" crying for undeserved attention.

    I do not have to deal with insects like you, so I shall add you to my ignore list that way I can't agree or disagree with you from now on and in fact will not even see your diatribes in the future.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post

    Just once I wish you would post something you actually know about rather than depending on Googled mishmash that you have absolutely no understanding. You posts are no more than "the insane ramblings of a lunatic mind" crying for undeserved attention.
    Amen to that.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    so I shall add you to my ignore list that way I can't agree or disagree with you from now on and in fact will not even see your diatribes in the future.
    Jack
    Good choice, Jack.

    Ya know, seems like there's at least one petulant child on every playground who can't figure out why none of the other kids want to play with them. They become angry about this and consequently, evermore demanding that the others play with them. The more demanding and insulting they become, the more they are avoided. All too many of these petulant children grow into adulthood without ever abandoning their condescending attitudes and behavior. They didn't "get it" then and they don't "get it" as adults either. Not much any of us can do about that, except to continue to avoid interaction with them for the sake of our own mental and spiritual health.

    Our "about to be tossed out on his ear" governor Blagojevich would be an example of this type of arrogant attitude and behavior. Thinks he can do no wrong and that everyone should adore him despite his abhorant behavior. Recalcitrant to the bitter end.
    Last edited by goldhiller; 01-01-2009 at 06:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Fully expect the flying cadre of alter egos to start the slam fest ranting "drive bys" to begin again shortly, they tend to show up firing whenever you and yours suffer from "open mouth, insert foot" syndrome and your pride feels wounded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Simply and at the level of your most recent post:
    Rubber, Glue, Bounce, Stick - On You! Oh yes, and you started it AGAIN - neener neener!

    Promise? Doubt it, then who could you blame for your own actions and writings yourself? Grow up!

    Although that ("growing up") may be too challenging for you, the "genius" who doesn't realize that he's selected a time zone display on his user settings that affects the "hours" that he sees for post stamp times (or that it doesn't match the time-zone of his declared "location")! If you can't understand that shift, how could anyone including your own self, have expected that you could understand or apply any other concept of "time" ?!? ROAR!
    Yawn, yawn, yawn.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 01-01-2009 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    BRP It's amazing how often you make personal attacks, dismiss others opinions as "horse patootie" and then become a cry baby when the favor is returned. It is quite evident that I only loose my temper when dealing with a spiteful moron like you. You are a prevaricator and an obnoxious individual who goes out of their way to get under others skin.

    Just once I wish you would post something you actually know about rather than depending on Googled mishmash that you have absolutely no understanding. You posts are no more than "the insane ramblings of a lunatic mind" crying for undeserved attention.

    I do not have to deal with insects like you, so I shall add you to my ignore list that way I can't agree or disagree with you from now on and in fact will not even see your diatribes in the future.
    Jack
    Simply and at the level of your most recent post:
    Rubber, Glue, Bounce, Stick - On You! Oh yes, and you started it AGAIN - neener neener!

    Promise? Doubt it, then who could you blame for your own actions and writings yourself? Grow up!

    Although that ("growing up") may be too challenging for you, the "genius" who doesn't realize that he's selected a time zone display on his user settings that affects the "hours" that he sees for post stamp times (or that it doesn't match the time-zone of his declared "location")! If you can't understand that shift, how could anyone including your own self, have expected that you could understand or apply any other concept of "time" ?!? ROAR!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Does "Power-Save" really work?

    The Power-save device can save you money depending on how you are billed for electrical energy usage. If you are billed using an electro mechanical devise typically identified by a spinning disc then the Power-save device can save you money. In these cases you are told that you are billed by the watthour but in fact the electro mechanical watthour meter does not actually measure watthour but instead measures VA. The meter manufactuer builds in a compensation factor for the difference in VA and watt. Businesses are often billed in VA and then without a doubt the device does save on the power bill. Some electrical utility companies are switching to electronic watthour meters and in those cases you would not save. In all cases the electrical utility company saves on the transmission of electrical energy whenever the Power-save device is used. I think this is good from an overall perspective of energy conservation.
    Side note: with the usage of CFL lamps look for the electrical power companies to switch all billing to kvahr (kilo volt amp hour)in stead of Kwhr as is mostly now the case. Reason being is that CFL lighting runs at about .52 power factor. This means that the electrical power company must provide an abnormally high amount of electrical current than would typically be used for incadesent lighting. This cost them considerally more money and thus billing using kvahr can pass that cost on to the consumer. Another fact about CFL's are that can contribute more greenhouse gases than are produced when using existing transmission facilities. Also CFL lamps can be a fire hazord when used with dimmers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •