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  1. #1
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    Question Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    I'm going to rewire a 5-arm chandelier. Right now it has old brittle cloth-covered wire.

    I know the new wire has to be able to withstand higher temps than 'regular' wire, but I have been unable to find any specifics. What exactly is the kind of wire used for these sorts of light fixtures? And 16-gauge should be sufficiently large? Someone told me to use THHN wire but I thought I'd ask around first.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    THHN, THHW and THW-2 all have temp rating of 194 dgress F. and 18 Ga. would be more than sufficiant.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Jack, The wire you suggested is for conduits and construction. The better solution is approved fixture wire that is stranded and is available at your home center. It does a better job and is more flexible. And most important approved for use in fixtures. If you have a copy of the National Electrical Code artical 402 is what is required of manufactures to use. NEC Table 402.3 list all wires that can be used. Good luck
    Last edited by Ravens53; 03-06-2008 at 11:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens53 View Post
    Jack, The wire you suggested is for conduits and construction. The better solution is approved fixture wire that is stranded and is available at your home center. It does a better job and is more flexible. And most important approved for use in fixtures. If you have a copy of the National Electrical Code artical 402 is what is required of manufactures to use. NEC Table 402.3 list all wires that can be used. Good luck
    Of course you are correct and I'm glad you caught it. I answered his question but was thinking TFFN when I grabed my ampacity and temp chart which listed the types I posted. Just another senior moment.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Interesting topic.

    Just out of curiosity I looked at a roll of lamp cord out in the warehouse. It is marked as SPT-1, lamp cord, but I do not see it listed in table 402.3.

    Good call by the way, Raven.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Kent, I was never really into fixtures but know alot about electronics and electrical work. I worked in the military electronics industry and worked on many machines. I also was responsible for the power throughout the 1 million square foot facility up to the 38KVA line coming in. We built military electronics and on more than one occasion had to work with design engineers. So digging for information and trouble shooting was my specialty. Now for your answer each letter represents a type of insulation type but i really do nt know alot about it. Below is your answer

    TYPE SPT-1 LAMP CORD: 105C 300V (UL/CSA)
    TYPE SPT-2 LAMP CORD: 105C 300V (UL/CSA)
    TYPE SPT-3 LAMP CORD: 60C 300V (UL/CSA)


    Applications:
    SPT-1 Lamp cord, SPT-2 Lamp Cord, and SPT-3 Lamp Cord are indended for use in household appliances, including clocks, lamps, radios and fans.

    Conductors:
    Annealed, bunch stranded copper per UL 62

    Insulation:
    Polyvinylchoride (PVC) per UL 62

    SPT-1 Lamp Cord, SPT-2 Lamp Cord & SPT-3 Lamp Cord Features:
    Resist Oils, Water, Acids, Alkalies, Ozone

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Raven,

    Thanks for the info. I think I've rewired maybe two fixtures in my life, LOL, and have never had a reason to pay much attention.

    Commercial construction is pretty much my gig. Just do not get too many questions here about fault current calculations... . or sizing parallel feeders.

    I don't really know how many years I have tried helping out here at TOH and at the old site but it's a few........... Good to see a new face and I hope you hang around.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Just curious, since when is a hard wired light fixture or luminaire considered to be a lamp, or household appliance (cord and plug)?

    Its a UL 1598 vs. UL 153 issue. Seems to me 400.4 is the authoritative table, its a pendant luminaire/lighting fixture) isn't it (re: 410 parts VI and VII as applicable, esp. 410.27, .28 & .30), hard wired not portable, yet adjustable length and aim, yes?
    Last edited by unregistered; 03-06-2008 at 07:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by unregistered View Post
    Just curious, since when is a hard wired light fixture or luminaire considered to be a lamp, or household appliance (cord and plug)?

    Its a UL 1598 vs. UL 153 issue. Seems to me 400.4 is the authoritative table, its a pendant luminaire/lighting fixture) isn't it (re: 410 parts VI and VII as applicable, esp. 410.27, .28 & .30), hard wired not portable, yet adjustable length and aim, yes?
    No, the OP was talking about re-wiring a 5 arm chandelier, that would be covered by 402 which is fixture wiring, 400.4 refers to flexible cords used for lamps, radios, irons, etc. it would also be used for the cord on a pendent lamp but not for wiring a fixture. Kentvw brought up he had a roll of lamp cord and it was SPT-1 which is listed in table 400.4
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  10. #10
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    Question Re: Rewiring chandelier - what kind of wire?

    Well UL 62 is for lamps not light fixtures/luminaires.
    UL 1598 applies.

    400.4 at least applies to a flexible cable from ceiling to the clusterbody if used instead of twisting the conductors. There's only dozens of lines devoted to pendant dropped fixtures.

    400.7 Uses Permitted.

    (A) Uses. Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for the following:

    (1) Pendants
    (2) Wiring of luminaires (fixtures)

    So 'splain me again would ya Jack, why you insist Table 400.4 does NOT and cannot apply???? 'cuz your limiting characterization as to its application and use is just plain wrong 400.7, especially 400.7(A)(2) says otherwise. NEC 410 Parts VI Wiring of Luminaires(Fixtures) and VII Construction of Luminaires(Fixtures) do not apply???? (I'm thinking 400.7(A)(2) says they do!). Seems to me you can use either cords or cables listed for use from table 400.4 for the fixture OR wires from Table 402.3 as long as they are correctly rated for the project (ampacity and temperature, application, etc.).

    From cluster body to lamp socket depending on the size/length of the arm with offsets, UL relief etc. you can exceed three feet in larger chandeliers, if using wire then you're required to twist it - making it impossible to thread in some arms with protective relief protections, that's one reason why you have cable alternatives. When you're putting the chandelier together your wires are subject to twisting the fixture itself can rotate, twist, bend when hung - another case when 402.10(1) doesn't allow you to use fixture wires from your table.

    Don't confuse fixture wiring with fixture wires and think that a section title excludes permitted use of flexible cable and cords and in some cases/applications requires them.

    That's what I remembered, but wouldn't be the first time I remembered something wrong. I do agree that fixture wires in the canopy to the circuit yes, but light sockets to the canopy I think 400.4 is permitted and in some cases required depending on the individual chandiler. Neither table is exclusive of the other.

    P.S. SPT-1 is not wire its cord or cable assembly, that's why it isn't on the wire table, but it is allowed depending on the application.
    Last edited by unregistered; 03-07-2008 at 01:05 AM.

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