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  1. #11
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    Jun 2007
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    Fayette County, Ohio
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    It's all politics. In the cities one of the primary functions of the building dept is to encourage the use of local contractors that pay taxes in the muni.

    I lived in on city that required you to get a permit to replace your own water heater. I got the permit, replaced the water heater, called for inspection and it was red tagged. Called a friend of mine who was a contractor, he gave me a yellow city tag and said to hang it on the heater. I hung the tag and called the inspector , he saw the tag and said it passed. That's one of the reasons I now live in the country.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    That's one of the reasons I don't agree with the permit and code system, it ultimately is NOT about safe building practices, it's about money, control, and who's doing what. I don't want to get cynical on the whole thing, because there's plenty good that comes from it, however, crooks will always be crooks and the good folks will always be held accountable for them.

    I've known crooked inspectors, crooked contractors, and plain folk that just shouldn't be allowed into a home improvement center. It's all part of the industry that we must live with.

  3. #13
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Ran into a similar situation when helping my brother install an underground sprinkler system. He wanted to run a line under the driveway slab for continuing the piping.

    We looked at a couple of options :
    1. hire a contractor with a Ditch Witch piece of machinery to horizontally bore and pull the piping under the driveway.... cost was the drawback
    2. cut a strip in the concrete , trench , lay piping , then patch the cement.... doable and more cost effective.
    I suggested to try a method that's been used on shorter situations.
    Running cables etc. under concrete sidewalks I've used a length of rebar which was pounded through the underside soil of the sidewalk . Once it was through to the other side trench secured the cable and used the rod to fish the cable through.

    We decided to try a variation of this method and if it didn't work then option 2 was the next choice. Since he was running piping the rebar wasn't going to provide the soil displacement to pull the piping through.

    I had some old galvy threaded water pipes six feet long. Took a number of theses and capped the end where the pounding was to happen. Pounded a section in then put on a coupler attached another length of pipe ( with the cap threaded on the pounding end) and repeated the process until reaching the other side.

    In this case the piping was large enough for him to insert the sprinkler piping in so he just left the galvy pipe in place. This would also depend on what soil conditions and if there are large rocks etc. .... in this case we were fortunate there weren't any large rocks.

    Maybe this helps.

  4. #14
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    I had some old galvy threaded water pipes six feet long. Took a number of theses and capped the end where the pounding was to happen. Pounded a section in then put on a coupler attached another length of pipe ( with the cap threaded on the pounding end) and repeated the process until reaching the other side.
    I've used this method a few times with good success, though I've never just driven pipe or rebar through as described. Around here we've got very HARDpan/clay soil so I've used EMT conduit. It's tough enough to take a beating, yet thin walled enough to not provide much resistence in the dirt. The conduit is driven in until it just starts to bind, then it's pulled back out and cleared with a rod so that more soil can be pulled out of the hole. I've gone up to 8 to 10 feet with this method and it works quite well.

    Back on the ranch, a neighbor needed to bore under the county road, probably a distance of 20' or so. He rented a cable auger designed for the job that used a combination of an auger and a water hose which flushed the dirt out of the hole and away from the auger.

  5. #15
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Sort of on this subject, has anyone noticed a difference in the ease/difficulty in procuring permits depending on the size of the municipality and it's relation to civilization? Here where I live, you can write off at least 2 hours of your life - hating ever second of it - to get a permit for even the smallest of items, regardless of being in the city office or the county office. I've worked in other, more remote areas where I was in and out in less than 15 minutes (no exaggeration) and laughed and enjoyed my time with the fine folks behind the counter (again, no exaggeration).

    That's it! I quit! I'm moving in with ****ie! He doesn't have to worry about such things.



    Hey now!!! We gots codes here too, ya know. But...... far less restrictions/requirements than larger metro areas.....and far fewer goober-ment snoops around to see if you got the "required" one for every little project.......such as running a length of conduit & wire under a driveway to power some LV lights. (For knowledgable contractors, it *can* be a good idea if you do get that permit because if something goes awry....your insurance may not cover ya unless you acquired the permit. So it's your call on projects like that. On bigger projects....... there's no question. Get the permit......period.)

    In the university town, 60 miles from here....you need a permit and post-inspection to change out a toilet.......for God's sake. Income generation for the city employees is all that is. Guess how many folks, including licensed plumbers, actually adhere to that toilet requirement.

    As far as getting this particular conduit under this driveway......I think what might work and what won't work at all is kinda dependant upon what is under the concrete.

    If there's nothing but dirt, then driving a pipe might work. So might jetting a path, but I'd be more inclined to use a pressure washer to do the deed than just common hose pressure and flow. Much faster boring and far less water involved, hence less chance of underming the slab to a degree that causes future problems. Mount a zero-degree PW tip to the first (6' or so) section of galvy pipe and the quick coupler to the other end of the pipe. (This will require reducer couplings, of course. Using anything other than a zero-degree tip will slow down the progress and wash away much more dirt.) Bore away, carefully guiding/aiming the pipe. Then add another section of pipe to proceed farther.......etc.

    If there's a compacted rock base (or ledge) under the drive at the depth you want to go, good-luck jetting or pounding pipe. You *might* get it thru, but you might not end up where you want. You might end up driving the "redirected" pipe downward and come out 6' below grade on the other side.

    If there's a deep rock base.......cutting the crete might be the way to go. But......I'd be inclined to cut a path wide enough to allow for the use of an SDS drill to add some sticks/pins of 1/2 rerod into the edges of the concrete. Maybe every 8". That should ensure that the new pour is well anchored to the old one and that they will move in unison in the future.

    If you don't mind tearing up a bit more lawn and doing some reseeding, you could consider having a backhoe come in and push the galvy under the drive with the bucket. (I still wouldn't try pushing it thru compacted large-rock fill though) Or........the same might be accomplished with a skidloader (aka....Bobcat). Less lawn compaction that way.

    Or......find someone with an air-driven "mole"...or rent one. You'll also need to have/rent a large air compressor to supply the drive-power to the device. Downside of this approach is that unless your mole-head is exactly the diameter you need for your pipe.......then driveway cracking/collapse is a bit more likely in the future.....particualrly if the drive wasn't poured with rerod in it.

    Or you could ask the folks at your local cable company, electrical power supplier and/or local contractors/plumbers/electricians for the name of contractors in your area who offer "mole" services. My one nephew works for such a company laying underground cable, wire and pipe. They'll bore right under a creek bed and come out within 6" of where they want on the other side. The new high-tech moles are just that. Dig a little trench and drop the critter in. (Theirs is hydraulically driven) Send it on it's way underground via the control box you hold in your hand. Watch the screen on the box as it keeps track of the mole's exact forward progress, depth, direction, etc. And you can turn it/redirect the critter with that control box. Real nifty. Real expensive.

    We always lay conduit under drives and sidewalks at pouring time......whether designated or not. Too easy and cheap not to. Pick the most likely locations for future needs and drop it in. Then mark it to the inch on drawing you give the HO for their files. Also keep it on file here cause HOs are notorious for losing the important stuff within a week and then callng a year or three later to get the info. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

    PS- Call Julie BEFORE you dig/bore/drive that pipe !!! There might be phone lines, cable lines, water pipes or gas pipes under there. If you hit one.....this project will get REAL expensive in a big hurry.
    Last edited by goldhiller; 01-28-2008 at 01:17 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Quote Originally Posted by ****hiller View Post
    Hey now!!! We gots codes here too, ya know.
    Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

    far less restrictions/requirements than larger metro areas.....and far fewer goober-ment snoops around to see if you got the "required" one for every little project....
    That's what I was referring to.


    Besides, you've got the best beer ...
    Last edited by A. Spruce; 01-28-2008 at 02:09 PM. Reason: forgot the beer comment ;)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    The Great White North
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    There you go ... lots of ideas.

    btw... welcome back ... Mr. ****hiller.... ummm ... beer.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2

    Thumbs up Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Everybody,

    Just wanted to thank all of you for the helpful opinions. ****hiller, I knew moles existed but honestly, I didn't know anyone figured out how to wire the furry little guys to a control box! Seriously, though, lots of good stuff.

    Many thanks

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Goober says "Hey everybody".

    Yeah, I made it back for a bit. Things have been mighty busy here and will continue to be for a while. That's okay cause idle hands are the Devil's workshop, eh?

    Sprucey.....Worry not, dude.....I knew ya was jerkin' my chain. Note smiley faces in the reply. But you are right about one thing......I have the bestest home brew right here. Well....I will when I get around to doin' another batch. Am down to cheap store bought utility beer/swill for now. Ugh.

    Wilddog.....You might be on to sumpthin'. Maybe get a badger, wire him up to an electric fencer unit or fit him out with a doggie shock-collar. Lower him into your hole, then open the cage door and apply "persuasion" when/if necessary. It's the guidance system that might be tough to work out.

    If should decide to give the jetting approach a go........I'd likely stay in the 1200 -1500 psi range on the pressure washer. Even 700 psi would likely do the deed rapidly if only dirt is involved. If there's a crushed limestone base under there, you might need 2500 psi to blast thru....or you simply might not make it at all thru a gravel layer. It just depends. I'd personally try to stay well under any type of rock base myself and jet or psuh the pipe thru dirt only. A little deeper ditch to dig on both sides but much easier boring.
    Last edited by goldhiller; 01-28-2008 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #20
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Buried PVC/Conduit Under Driveway

    Quote Originally Posted by ****hiller View Post
    Am down to cheap store bought utility beer/swill for now. Ugh.
    Any self respect'n zymerophile wouldn't touch the stuff. 'course I'm lucky, I've got a micropub nearby so when I'm lazy I'm still not without good brew.

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