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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by YukYuk View Post
    Harry - Ravens53,

    There is no such citation 210.23(2). Perhaps you meant sections 210.23, 210.23(A), 210.23(A)(1) and 210.23(A)(2)??

    However those sections don't say what you claim they say, nothing in 210.23 does for 2002, 2005 or 2008, I suggest you re-read them. As long as the dishwasher is fixed in place (not portable), as the garbage disposal would be, no such exclusions. Your own example provides equal to not exceeding 50%, which is likewise not restricted. As long as the circuit isn't providing power to non-fixed in place cord-and-plug
    it is a non fixed cord and plug application
    equipment nor luminaires, only fixed in place devices corded or hardwired, no such 80% exclusion exists in those sections either for fixed-in-place appliances. Both of devices/equipment described in Harry's example: the DW (fixed in place) and the Disposer (either hardwired or cord-and-plug) are not prohibited from sharing the same 20 Amp circuit, as long as there are no luminaires or non-fixed-in-place devices sharing it according to the citation Harry apparently was referring to. Also, if the example disposer (9.8 A equal to or less than 50%) was the only fixed in place, and the dishwasher was portable (not fixed in place) and corded, as long as the DW didn't exceed 80% of the entire circuit rating, it too would not be prohibited according to these sections, although it would not be permissable to operate both at the same time if the combined load equalled greater than 100% of the branch circuit's rating.

    Key to this discussion applicable to the original poster, is that the receptacle's face must be rated for 20 amps and that the switch the OP utilizes be of a sufficient rating for the disposer.
    Its not unreasonable to assume that a d/w and g/d may be used at the same time.

    I think raven was reffering to 210.23 (a)2 utilization equipment fastened in place... it goes on to say.. Totalrating..shall not exceed 50%..

    this would be considered cord and plug fastened equipment since we were talking about wiring a device ...

    I think everyone is aproaching the same conclusion from a different perspective. there is no need to split hairs over why we agree.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by YukYuk View Post
    I know of no garbage disposal that isn't fastened in place. Installed dishwashers are fastened in place.

    Your quote is incomplete and only part of a sentance, did you want me to type the whole thing for you?that restriction only applies if there are lights and/or other not-fixed-in-place cord-and-plug utilization on the same circuit. [COLOR="red]or a combination thereof and I think we were talking about wiring a device[/COLOR] Try reading the entire section, it hasn't changed at least the last 3 code cycles I see no point to this comment and in future would apreciate it if you refrained from advising me The cord-and-plug attachment of a DW or a GD doesn't matter a, both would be fixed-in-place.Is this your opinion? Neither example would be of issue, even if the DW were a portable one. that would be up to the AWJ

    NEC allows the example the OP and Raven gave, no problem with it as I said previously, as long as neither appliance in its instructions/listing requires a dedicated circuit, you have a 20 amp circuit and the duplex receptacle used to split has a 20 amp face. Of course a local rule or ammendment to codes may not.
    I can't beleive your arguing this. The NEC is a minimum standard not a guide. Go ahead, put the dishwasher and g/d on the same ckt. I'll come back and fix it later.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by lmills148 View Post
    I can't beleive your arguing this. The NEC is a minimum standard not a guide. Go ahead, put the dishwasher and g/d on the same ckt. I'll come back and fix it later.
    Good Call Imills!!!!! A good electrician would never install both on the same circuit even though it is functional and could work. Most of the time the disposal and Dishwasher do not run at the same time but it does not make it safe and legal. Your right the NEC is the minimum requirement.
    Harry

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by YukYuk View Post
    You both are spouting Opinion and non-existant code restrictions. No reason to discuss further, as Harry claimed a prohibition in the Code that doesn't exist and resorts to personal attacks rather than a factual discussion. The original poster has not returned to the thread, so no reason to continue.

    Regarding your Opinions we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I have been wrong before, many many times in fact. When I am I yeild. You would make it a lot easier to yeild if you left your criticism at the door. If you have something to show me I will listen. If your post remain as offensive as what I quoted above you'll be ignored. I apreciate those with an opinion or interpratation thats different than mine and I enjoy the debate but theres no need to throw stones.

    Is the d/w over 6 amps?
    Is the g/d over 6 amps?
    if either of them are then wouldn't 430.53 (a)(1) apply.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Ya know .... it might help those lay persons who might come across this thread to explain things a little more simplier instead of reciting the NEC book verbatim.

    Besides ...... wouldn't the local electrical code be the determining factor as to the requirment .... at least that's my experience ?
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    I also thought this would be put to bed much earlier, being the local code officer has the final say...

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    uuuuhhhhh......
    I've forgot, was there a question somewhere that started this "discussion"??



  8. #18
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    Ya know .... it might help those lay persons who might come across this thread to explain things a little more simplier instead of reciting the NEC book verbatim.

    Besides ...... wouldn't the local electrical code be the determining factor as to the requirment .... at least that's my experience ?
    But Canuk, shouldn't we throw in counter EMF, EMI, RFI, motor start current, peak voltage vs. RMS voltage and the fact that NEC code limits capacity to 50% of ampacity of wiring? Or should we just say to put the two units on separate circuits even if you split a duplex outlet?
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    Quote Originally Posted by YukYuk View Post
    Which have been (gratefully) removed by Administration.
    At the risk of this .....

    Good one Jack ....... lest we forget ... the right hand rule.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Wiring an outlet for a dishwasher and garbage disposal

    They are running backwards????

    Turn the receptacle over and reinstall then plug back in. That should fix it.

    And also remember that E = MC Squared. If you keep that in mind on your project all will go just fine and dandy.

    Oh, and don't forget to check your tire pressure in the morning when it's cool out and rotate them as well.

    Hope that helps.

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