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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    1

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    I don't blame you for wanting the extra years out of a cheaper vinyl floor. Paint the subfloor with a gloss paint; 2 coats, (pretty much water proof). The tiles will definitly stick to that after it's dry. Then an extra step would be clear (or color match the seam) 100% silicone the seams. After siliconing the DRY & clean seams making sure the silicone has definite contact with the sides of the tiles. Use a rubber squeege moisened with 30% dawn dish detergent 70% water. Tightly wipe the seams within ten minites after applied. Tomorrow..... Let the puddles begin.....That's a lot of work.
    If anybody disagrees..... Please reply with a Y?
    Last edited by ir8av8r; 08-16-2008 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    7,190

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Quote Originally Posted by ir8av8r View Post
    I don't blame you for wanting the extra years out of a cheaper vinyl floor. Paint the subfloor with a gloss paint; 2 coats, (pretty much water proof). The tiles will definitly stick to that after it's dry. Then an extra step would be clear (or color match the seam) 100% silicone the seams. After siliconing the DRY & clean seams making sure the silicone has definite contact with the sides of the tiles. Use a rubber squeege moisened with 30% dawn dish detergent 70% water. Tightly wipe the seams within ten minites after applied. Tomorrow..... Let the puddles begin.....That's a lot of work.
    If anybody disagrees..... Please reply with a Y?
    A few tips on using silicone:

    1. Only apply what it takes to fill the gap! EXCESS IS NOT A GOOD THING!
    2. After carefully applying the least amount of silicone possible, mist the bead with alcohol and then use 1" to 3" strokes, to set the caulk into the joint and take off the excess.
    3. Once step #2 is done, go back and wipe the length of the joint in one stroke, ending the motion in the air, meaning lift your finger while still in motion, this will minimize the "start/stop" marks left in the caulk

    Alcohol will not allow the silicone to adhere where you don't want it, yet will evaporate and leave a clean surface that can accept silicone later. Using soap will leave a residue that will prevent the silicone from adhering to the surface, causing premature failure.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    1

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    In this day day age, the interiors of houses are constantly being done and redone and redone. Everyone has very different ideas of what is attractive. There is so much ugly tile out there. Just because it is ceramic or porcelain doesn't mean it should be there forever when it is butt ugly.

    I put groutable vinyl tile in my kitchen and it is modern and classy. We remodeled the room, sunk a bunch of money into the counter tops and cheaped out on the floor. Its a gourmet modern kitchen now. I love it. You can not tell it is not the real thing. However, when I am done with this house and pass it along to another person, they are probably going to want to change it and they will be happy that it isn't rock hard heavy ceramic tile.

    I am now eyeballing mannington adura vibe flax for my bathroom, grouted. I plan to put it on the walls. Liquid nail will keep it up...and it does not have to be water tight because it will not be in the shower.

    And I personally don't see any reason you can't put it right over the old tile. If done properly it should be just fine. If it is considered waterproof then the only trick is getting it to stay in place as the adhesive dries so you can grout it. I say go for it. And seal all the grout lines when you're done.

    After all, someone is probably just going to tear it out later because we all have different aesthetics. It really doesn't need to last forever when someone else thinks its ugly.

    Cheers!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    All very useful to us newbies, thanks for the info.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Quote Originally Posted by TerraB View Post
    In this day day age, the interiors of houses are constantly being done and redone and redone. Everyone has very different ideas of what is attractive. There is so much ugly tile out there. Just because it is ceramic or porcelain doesn't mean it should be there forever when it is butt ugly.

    I put groutable vinyl tile in my kitchen and it is modern and classy. We remodeled the room, sunk a bunch of money into the counter tops and cheaped out on the floor. Its a gourmet modern kitchen now. I love it. You can not tell it is not the real thing. However, when I am done with this house and pass it along to another person, they are probably going to want to change it and they will be happy that it isn't rock hard heavy ceramic tile.

    I am now eyeballing mannington adura vibe flax for my bathroom, grouted. I plan to put it on the walls. Liquid nail will keep it up...and it does not have to be water tight because it will not be in the shower.

    And I personally don't see any reason you can't put it right over the old tile. If done properly it should be just fine. If it is considered waterproof then the only trick is getting it to stay in place as the adhesive dries so you can grout it. I say go for it. And seal all the grout lines when you're done.

    After all, someone is probably just going to tear it out later because we all have different aesthetics. It really doesn't need to last forever when someone else thinks its ugly.

    Cheers!
    I agree 100% !

  6. #16

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Yes. I also agree with TerraB.

    ________________________
    tile cleaning floor machines
    Last edited by kevinyount958; 06-13-2013 at 01:00 PM.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Yes. I also agree with you.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1

    Angry Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Quote Originally Posted by C Ed Wright View Post
    The only one who will be happy you used that ridiculous stuff will be the tile pro you will have to call in to fix it.

    Did you really say self-stick tiles on a bathroom floor? The way this works is, they sell you whatever you're gullible enough to buy, then they'll sell you more stuff to fix it, then they'll sell even more stuff to fix that. The stockholders get more dividends and you keep throwing money away fixing the mess you could have avoided -- throwing it away to the stockholders, that is! And they already have more money than you do -- THEY are investing while you're looking to DIY to save money! THEY operate on the P.T. Barnum Principle: "A sucker born every minute!"

    For a project you will be proud of, choose a ceramic tile, and a grout color. (One whole wing of the library on that subject!) Either buy a bunch of tools you may never use again, or call a pro. If you think you'll do more tile, fine, invest in the tools.

    It goes like this:
    1. Clean CDX subfloor (anything else, check back here).
    2. Mortar and screw down cementitious backerboard (CBB); must be latex modified thinset mortar over CDX; apply fiberglas mesh tape to any joints with same thinset. Next day:
    3. Set tile with same thinset: Spread then "comb" with 1/4" notched trowell held at 45 degrees to the floor, then "butter" the backside of each tile with mortar just before you set it tight against the previously laid tiles and press and wiggle it down into the mortar; THEN slide it the grout-joint-width away and place grout-joint spacers. ("Butter" means just fill all the depressions on the back of the tile with thinset.)
    4. With damp sponge, keep wiping up all mortar on tiles, and between them in the grout joint with a corner forced down into the joint when necessary; keep working clean to save work later.
    5. Either when finished setting tile, OR the day before starting that, cut (if necessary) & set each marble threshhold -- some of us call them "saddles" -- in each doorway.

    Some insist on setting saddles last, like the last tile to go down to finish the job. I always do this the day before tiling, after the CBB is set & taped, and that's what I recommend to others, for two reasons: Doorways are often off-kilter, and I'd rather cut the tile to the angled saddle than have the saddle not line up with the doorframe; and, when set after the tile, people seem to get an irresistable urge to admire the tile by stepping onto the freshly-set saddle and breaking it! One guy I knew had this happen three times in one evening with the same customer! But it won't break once the mortar's firmed up from the day before...

    Do not try to grout the same day. But the longer you wait, the more cleaning, especially of the grout joints, you will have to do. Even if nobody goes in there... Dirt from Europe will get in there...

    6. After working very clean the day before, clean up everything you missed before grouting. Then grout, using a latex additive. This is almost another wing on the library, but home centers hold periodic How-To workshops. The main thing to remember is, if you use sanded ("floor") grout, once it firms up, you are DONE. Whereas unsanded ("wall") grout can be rubbed down further with a damp sponge after it firms up, even during the next few days. The other thing to remember is, do not fill between the floor tile and any verticle plane, especially the tub -- use matching caulk. (Same with wall tile: All corners get caulk not grout.) Clean up as well as possible but don't go crazy trying to rinse away all haze; that ain't gonna happen in a hundred rinses. When it looks clean while wet, it is.
    7. When all is dry, and before caulking, polish the haze away with cheap plain white washcloths from Wal-Mart, etc. Then caulk all around. Keep the caulk level with the edge of the tile as much as possible, rather than (literally) climbing the walls.
    8. If baseboards are to go in place, I strongly suggest using a bead of clear silicone under the bottom edge to keep water from escaping, rotting the baseboard, etc. DON'T get any unpaintable caulk on the face of the BB, however. If you tiled up to the baseboards, they are the vertical planes that get matching caulk as in 6. above.

    You now have a thousand year floor in a hundred year house. And bragging rights to match.
    This is not true. I had my house built 16 years ago. I had them, professional installers, install ceramic tile. Now, 16 years later, it's all cracking and it's all loose. Not sure what happened to my thoughts of at least having a fifty year old floor. I didn't even get twenty years out of it. I can't wait to have it ripped out and have vinyl flooring installed. I will NEVER again have ceramic flooring.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    7,190

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    Quote Originally Posted by 447debbie View Post
    This is not true. I had my house built 16 years ago. I had them, professional installers, install ceramic tile. Now, 16 years later, it's all cracking and it's all loose. Not sure what happened to my thoughts of at least having a fifty year old floor. I didn't even get twenty years out of it. I can't wait to have it ripped out and have vinyl flooring installed. I will NEVER again have ceramic flooring.
    As with all things, the quality of the materials used, as well as the skill of the tradesman installing it will affect the products' life span, whether we're talking about self-stick vinyl tile or ceramic tile. There are also many other factors that can cause failure, premature or otherwise.

    Don't condemn tile because it was installed improperly. Cracks are usually a sign of movement, be it deflection of a wood substrate, or ground heave moving a cement slab. Was water allowed to get under the tile to a wood substrate? Wood swells when subjected to moisture, which could easily crack tile. Did grout joints fail allowing water penetration? This can be a combination of deflection and neglect of maintenance.

    Similarly, you shouldn't expect vinyl to be a savior, whether you're using sticky tiles or sheet goods, rest assured, vinyl products are equally prone to failure, if not more so. When installed over wood, the #1 failure point is the wood under it getting wet and swelling (leaking toilet, shower splash not cleaned up or contained, leaking plumbing ). Vinyl is a soft material and prone to puncture, gouge, and slicing, all will allow moisture under the vinyl which will separate backing, release glue, or buckle wood components. Vinyl tile, with all their edge seams are least able to protect the substrate from moisture damage and, ultimately, flooring failure.

    Moral of the story, there is no "perfect" flooring. It is up to the homeowner to know the strengths and weaknesses of the product they are choosing, and it is also up to the homeowner to make sure that their environment is suitable for the product they are choosing, as well as hiring a tradesman with the knowledge to properly install said product, including increasing structural integrity of the substrate if necessary.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,203

    Default Re: Self Stick Vinyl tiles w/grout

    A properly done ceramic tile floor is as good as floors get. The problem is that many are not done properly, even by "Pros", so someone goofed if a tile floor doesn't last at least 50 years in normal service. As to the new stick-on tiles being discussed here, maybe they work fine and maybe they don't- they are too new to know this and so I would not trust them unless they come with a guarantee covering the entire cost of removal and replacement (labor and disposal too) which they don't. That's the kind of warranty I give because I know that the products and work I supply will not fail. I guess they don't trust themselves that much- it's either a lack of knowledge or a lack of experience behind that.

    It seems someone is trying to make VCT-style tiles easier to install and selling their idea to the less-experienced DIY crowd, which is a growing demographic. I support DIY (that's why I'm here) but I do not recommend anything which does not have an established track record of success. That standard had usually proven it's worth with me. I can list dozens of products that failed to meet the customer's expectations, products that didn't even meet their own specifications, companies that are no longer there to support their failed products, and products which caused other problems because of their use (which is never covered in a warranty). You're on your own here, taking the advice of sales associates who normally have little or no real experience with the installation of the product they are selling as having any value, seeing recommendations from others with limited experience concerning relatively new installations that have not yet been subjected to the test of time over the experience of those of us who make a living in this business and have to stand behind our work (whether the manufacturer does or not).

    Vinyl-type floorings can be very good when installed properly. They serve an entirely different purpose compared to ceramic tile floors, and that must be kept in mind; to wit: vinyl flooring is not designed or intended to have maximum durability and it will not last compared to more permanent floors. And so far, no 'stick-on' type floorings have shown themselves to last as long as they claim to. This is why professionals do not like to install them, and we usually will not warranty them because we know this. Perhaps someone has solved this issue, perhaps not, but it's your time and money to waste so do as you please. Just remember this post when a few years from now you find yourself replacing that floor and remember whose advice you took choosing it. If I happen to be wrong, then you're out nothing and you'll still have a nice floor but the basis of my advice then will still be the same as it is now:

    Don't be a Guinea-pig for anything new- let someone else do that so you can learn from their experience.


    Phil
    Last edited by Mastercarpentry; 11-28-2013 at 07:52 AM.

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