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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Well let's use a little common sense here. The lightening has travel thousands of feet to get to the antenna so you really thing 6 or 8 feet would make a difference?
    Yea I dont see where it would make much difference either ... piece of mind maybe
    The reason you don't connect to the GEC is because lightening can then be directed directly into the household electrical system.
    Jack
    but Lightning protection sytems DO require bonding to the GEC. 250.106 (I think there exceptions for high impedance grounding systems where sideflash requirements are met in nfpa 780 lightning protection standards something or other)

    According to the book so does the antenna (yea I looked I cheated) article 810.21(f) there is also an exhibit in the illustrated version (250.42 & 250.43) that specifically illustrates the differences between bonded and unbonded antenna.

    so the installer did mis-install it.. I wonder if he had an electrical license?
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Thanks Lloyd, I stand corrected.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    iam a natural gas tech you CAN NOT install any type of grounding wire to a gas service. i have seen this done many times in the field. we were called to a home because of a strong smell of gas.we had to evacuate the home because we were getting gas readings in the basement. the home was struck by lightning that night. it hit a ham radio antenna that was grounded to the gas service. when we dug up the service three feet of it was melted. anoter time we wre cutting off a service because the home owner switched to oil and when we were cutting the service(this is done live and we use air powered tools) the gas ignighted because the electriction grounded the electical to the gas service no one was hurt in both circumstances. allways call your your natural gas provider any time you are working in your yard they will be happy to help. in both instances the outcome could have been deadly!!!!
    Last edited by robert m; 11-29-2009 at 12:38 AM.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by robert m View Post
    iam a natural gas tech you CAN NOT install any type of grounding wire to a gas service. i have seen this done many times in the field. we were called to a home because of a strong smell of gas.we had to evacuate the home because we were getting gas readings in the basement. the home was struck by lightning that night. it hit a ham radio antenna that was grounded to the gas service. when we dug up the service three feet of it was melted. anoter time we wre cutting off a service because the home owner switched to oil and when we were cutting the service(this is done live and we use air powered tools) the gas ignighted because the electriction grounded the electrical to the gas service no one was hurt in both circumstances. allways call your your natural gas provider any time you are working in your yard they will be happy to help. in both instances the outcome could have been deadly!!!!
    unless you are a natural gas tech you should not be giving advice on this subject sorry i dont mean to be a jerk
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    Without there being a leak or rupture, probably not. You know how the gas company taps new service to the main line, don't you? They weld a new nipple onto the live gas line. Once that's done, they tap the line then install a valve.
    Last edited by robert m; 11-29-2009 at 12:55 AM.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky1 View Post
    id say ground it where ever ya can. the only way for an explosion to happen youd have to have a gas leak already.. and ive driven ground rods right next to gas pipes before.. just dont drive a rod into the pipe!! youll be fine
    i cant believe some of these posts that im reading. any time you dig,plant,change the grade of your yard YOU MUST CALL DIG SAFE ITS FEDERAL AND STATE LAW!!! a home owner was digging a hole for a mail box post and blew up his home because he hit the gas service. i will leave it with that

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky1 View Post
    id say ground it where ever ya can. the only way for an explosion to happen youd have to have a gas leak already.. and ive driven ground rods right next to gas pipes before.. just dont drive a rod into the pipe!! youll be fine
    Quote Originally Posted by robert m View Post
    i cant believe some of these posts that im reading. any time you dig,plant,change the grade of your yard YOU MUST CALL DIG SAFE ITS FEDERAL AND STATE LAW!!! a home owner was digging a hole for a mail box post and blew up his home because he hit the gas service. i will leave it with that!!!!
    you will also be held liable

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Robert
    Quote Originally Posted by robert m View Post
    iam a natural gas tech you CAN NOT install any type of grounding wire to a gas service.
    I dont think anyone was suggesting useing the gas main as an electrode. The question, I beleive, was one of NEC requirements for distance of electrodes from gas lines. Then we hijacked the thread to express our proffessional opinion of an instalation we saw on a recent show.

    Quote Originally Posted by robert m View Post
    unless you are a natural gas tech you should not be giving advice on this subject sorry i dont mean to be a jerk

    Which part of this conversation do you think is above the level of the master electricians, engineers, and a combined century or so of experience and only answerable by a gas technician? Please, be more specific.

    side note, I dont think dissapateing a lightning strike is the purpose of the ground on the antenna.
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    but Lightning protection sytems DO require bonding to the GEC. 250.106 (I think there exceptions for high impedance grounding systems where sideflash requirements are met in nfpa 780 lightning protection standards something or other)

    According to the book so does the antenna (yea I looked I cheated) article 810.21(f) there is also an exhibit in the illustrated version (250.42 & 250.43) that specifically illustrates the differences between bonded and unbonded antenna.

    so the installer did mis-install it.. I wonder if he had an electrical license?
    I'd be suprised.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by canuk View Post
    I'd be suprised.
    It seems like a trend lately, I had a few run ins with big companies lately that think there exempt from licensing. One of them wall mart (actually the contractor who covers jersey pa and delaware) not only do they not require there flat tv installers to have an electrical license but they (actually told me this on the phone) intentionally do not hire licensed electricians because they wont install a tv outlet for $35. There are pv installers always trying to install themselves without a license (reffered by the orange demon no less) and at least a dozen fairly large companies installing the notorious KVAR or watt mieser (or whatever name it is this month) that are unlicensed. I get a call every now and then asking me if I am interested in installing them for $50 each and how they will give me 20 a week and I tell them the permit cost is $40 and they insist I dont need a permit and there guys have been doing it for months with no permit... it makes it hard to be a legal contractor

    sorry rant over
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: Rooftop antenna and gas main

    Quote Originally Posted by robert m View Post
    unless you are a natural gas tech you should not be giving advice on this subject sorry i dont mean to be a jerk
    Unless you read the posts, you shouldn't criticize. No one suggested or implied grounding to the gas line or the meter. The discussion was how far from the meter the GEC should be and whether or not the grounding was done to code.

    Even professionals make mistakes, I can remember a few years back when some natural gas techs where digging up a gas line and cut into an underground main and cut the power to a whole subdivision. That didn't supply any further information about the subject at hand either.

    Your point "YOU MUST CALL DIG SAFE ITS FEDERAL AND STATE LAW!!! " is valid. Had you complain about the gas line and other underground utilities not being marked before driving the GEC you would have been in better standing.

    By the way gas lines to a residence are bonded. The water lines are bonded, the furnace is bonded and both have mechanical connections to the gas line. I guess if you are going to give electrical advice you should have some knowledge of the subject.
    Jack
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 11-30-2009 at 12:49 AM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

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