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  1. #1
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    Default # of wires in wall space between studs

    Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

    But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

    This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    Bundle two cables though a hole and fire stop……. You will be good.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    Quote Originally Posted by charleswaz View Post
    Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

    But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

    This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.
    3M makes a Romex product called a "Stacker".
    It is a plastic device with say a 12p nail that allows you to stack Romex in it and nail the said product to a stud. You must have access the the wall cavity to do so, of course.
    I would thing other have a similar product on the market.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    You may get differnt answers here because I dont think we are all visualizing the same thing. If your drilling a hole for the wires to go through then 2 wires and fire caulk is good, if I recall from another thread your walls are NOT open, and meaning your "old working" them so stackers may not be much help there but still usefull in the basement and attic. Generally speaking if its baloon framed, and your not pushing them through a hole try to keep some seperation 4 or 5 to a hand full maybe 1 handfull on each side of the bay, then fill the opening of the bottom of the bay with rotten cotten (probably a moot point but..)

    dont follow the urge to use 3 wire

    as an extra challenge too try to use as few j boxes as possable go right to the first box then make your splices there, it makes for fewer splices and a neater job (less troubleshooting later if it doesnt work right)
    Last edited by Lloyd; 09-28-2009 at 10:39 PM. Reason: edited to add "and its baloon framed" as i beleive the op stated elsewhere
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

    After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

    eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

    ??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

    obviously i am an over thinker... thank you

  6. #6
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    Quote Originally Posted by charleswaz View Post
    This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

    After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

    eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

    ??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

    obviously i am an over thinker... thank you
    Yes you can use fiberglass insulation in that wall cavity.
    Have you thought about pulling an extra run while the wall is open? Just wondering aloud here.
    As Lloyd posted, do not pull one 12/3 in place of two runs of 12/2. That was quite common in its day. But when installing AFCI breakers you can not share the neutral, so 12/3 would create headaches.....
    And nothing wrong with over thinking a problem, either.
    Last edited by Ernie_Fergler; 09-29-2009 at 05:25 PM. Reason: grammer

  7. #7
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    [QUOTE=Ernie_Fergler;63199]....As Lloyd posted, do not pull one 12/3 in place of two runs of 12/2. That was quite common in its day. But when installing AFCI breakers you can not share the neutral, so 12/3 would create headaches.....

    Howdy, a big oopsee came to mind when i read this i did use 14/3 wire split at one bedroom. I planned on AFCI breakers in each bedrooom . A giant thanks for your post so now i will either repull 14/2 or caculate if two bedrooms can be on one AFCI. glad i saw this before i enclosed all the walls and ceilings... Thanks again. Tim

  8. #8
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    Aug 2008
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    109

    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    Quote Originally Posted by charleswaz View Post
    Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

    But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

    This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.
    Quote Originally Posted by charleswaz View Post
    This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

    After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

    eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

    ??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

    obviously i am an over thinker... thank you
    Seems this type of project would be a heck of a lot easier to create a remote panel and run one feeder to it from the basement. This way your circuits would only need to home run to this remote or "sub-panel".

    You would have virtually eliminated voltage drop issues if your home is of any significant size (since your running everything up to the attic before you re-drop back down). Don't know where you're located, but if you have a hot attic don't forget you'll need to adjust for that ambient temperature in the summer time.

    You would only have one penetration to fireblock (going up) as well thus cutting down by half or more your circuit path penetrations between floors.

    Since you'd be reducing the amount of 12 ga cable that you'd otherwise be running up from the basement and reducing the length of these circuits it may more than pay for the feeder circuit and panel, and allow you to upgrade the wiring to the present safety standards and modern demands for electrical power for this portion of your re-wire. It would also make the access a heck of a lot more convienent should you need to service these circuits.
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  9. #9
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    Oh reguarding stackers... i used the expensive ones that let you slide the wires in and out. The hard noised but very good state inspectior told me of the much less expensive 3 and 4 wire stacker staples . I owe him as these saved allot of $.
    Also if stapeling multible wires to 2by 4s remember if severalwires use stackers as need 1 1/4" of wood from wire to edge of board...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    109

    Default Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

    I never suggested a remote panel in the attic! I was suggesting it be placed where the original poster had already excavated on the second floor.

    Basement to attic and return to second floor for seven circuits is a lot of wire.

    The crap about service equipment panel not being rated for a sub is downright stupid.

    You can run a simple 4-wire (2 hots, neutral & ground) feeder to a remote distribution 120/240 panel with a "main" breaker. There is no need to use aluminum or SER to do so, in fact it would be the most stupid choice. From there you can handle 8 or more 120 circuits. Since the Original Poster has indicated he wants 7 circuits on the second floor and he is accessing the majority via the attic this is the most logical choice. You can opt to use AFCI or GFCI breakers on this remote panel, thereby upgrading to current standards your wiring project on the second floor.

    That remote panel will be fed by a double pole breaker on your present panel. Thereby reserving the other five breaker positions (7 2nd floor circuits) you would otherwise have used home-running those 2nd floor circuits to the main panel for future use as you upgrade the first floor wiring in the future.

    I might add that 30 feet for a home run circuit from a basement to an attic above then dropping to a 2nd floor would be mighty short ceiling clearances (midget house!), and home running circuits from one end or the other of the house via the attic and dropping down opposite walls could make for a lot of cable and dozens of fire stop penetrations that would otherwise be unnecessary, especially since the entire first floor walls and plates are presently unaccessible as per the original poster.

    Feeder for an inside the residence remote distribution panel is no more complicated than installing a 4-wire 240 appliance circuit outlet.
    Last edited by Gray Watson; 10-10-2009 at 07:45 PM.
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