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  1. #1
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    Default I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last year

    I looking for information to make informed decisions on windows and siding. The house is 25yrs old, 2 story, 8" aluminum siding and wood windows; unfortunatly, the builder used a black sheathing instead of plywood and mininal insulation. Since I planning to replace the siding, should I use replacement windows or is it better to add new construction windows? What type of siding will last longer (vinyl, plastic, fiber-cement)? What about the thickness and nailing hem (single or double)? What style of siding wears better (traditional, dutch lap, or beaded)? Of course I looking at having the windows wrapped and replacing the gutters too.
    I would like to close two small windows in the kitchen corner then add a 4 ft wide casement window in the middle of the wall. Should the casement window be a new construction or replacement window?

    Last winter, my house leaked cold in every window and through the masonary fieplace; I finally blocked it off with plywood and insulation.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Since you are replacing the siding, new construction windows will be cheaper, and IMHO, a cleaner looking install.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    It looks like you will be down to your framing, which is a good thing - it will give you a chance to do things right and to code, as far as insulation, wrapping, etc.

    Windows? go with the above suggestion since new construction windows are designed to go into the framing. Siding? get recommendations from local contractors, who should know better than us what goes better in your area.

    A good approach is to educate yourself ahead of time, before you call any contractors - so that you come armed with useful info.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Quote Originally Posted by dj1 View Post
    It looks like you will be down to your framing, which is a good thing - it will give you a chance to do things right and to code, as far as insulation, wrapping, etc.

    Windows? go with the above suggestion since new construction windows are designed to go into the framing. Siding? get recommendations from local contractors, who should know better than us what goes better in your area.

    A good approach is to educate yourself ahead of time, before you call any contractors - so that you come armed with useful info.

    Thank you for the information. Its too late for education before contacting a contractor (or two), I'm learning as I go. I stopped at one of the locate vinyl suppliers this morning to see a bigger picture of the siding and windows, this is my second supplier visit, in person. Those little color swatches are like giving someone a small jar of sand from Virginia Beach and asking them to imagine the whole beach and how it feels.

    I don't understand the new window comment. I beleive the brick moulding will still be over the actual window opening so I don't know if the framing will be exposed.
    One contractor is offerring a thin foam or Tyvek before the siding. I'm very concerned that the new vinyl will not stay on if they miss nailing it to the studs and nail it to the black sheathing, its kind of dry and about 25 yrs old. A friend recommeded I reply sheathing with plywood or OSB; lots of money there.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearberry View Post
    Thank you for the information. Its too late for education before contacting a contractor (or two), I'm learning as I go. I stopped at one of the locate vinyl suppliers this morning to see a bigger picture of the siding and windows, this is my second supplier visit, in person. Those little color swatches are like giving someone a small jar of sand from Virginia Beach and asking them to imagine the whole beach and how it feels.
    Why do you have your heart set on vinyl siding when there are so many other choices that are far superior in every way? You do understand that vinyl siding is not a water tight product, right? It's bad enough when it is appliec over existing siding, I'd NEVER install it over bare studs, as you're indicating!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearberry View Post
    I don't understand the new window comment. I beleive the brick moulding will still be over the actual window opening so I don't know if the framing will be exposed.
    A new window is installed against the framing of the wall, a retrofit window is screwed into the frame of the existing window. A new window looks better, a retrofit is thick and bulky, and personally, I've not been too impressed with their performance either. Brand definitely matters when it comes to windows, regardless of buying new or retrofit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearberry View Post
    One contractor is offerring a thin foam or Tyvek before the siding. I'm very concerned that the new vinyl will not stay on if they miss nailing it to the studs and nail it to the black sheathing, its kind of dry and about 25 yrs old. A friend recommeded I reply sheathing with plywood or OSB; lots of money there.
    Back to my original comment, you do realize that vinyl siding isn't a water tight product, right? If all you have is a tar paper vapor barrior over the studs, this is not going to stand up to the install of the siding, it will be perforated with holes, then you will not only have drafty walls, you will have water getting into them. Tyvek or any other type of vapor barrier alone isn't going to cut it either, you need a solid substrate to successfully install vinyl siding over. By the time you install sheathing AND pay for the sub-par vinyl siding, you could have easily gone with any other type of siding material that will look better, last longer, and actually add value to your house. Vinyl siding is a negative when it comes to resale value. Yes, it really is that bad.

    In answer to your next question, how is vinyl not water tight? It just isn't. It is designed to "shed" water, but it won't keep it out completely. Joints leak, "flashings", even if used, are generally inadequate, caulking fails around window and door moldings, and many other issues. In addition, once moisture is behind the siding, it masks dryrot problems until then become severe and expensive to repair.

    In answer to your next question, why is it a negative for resale value? Because it just is. Buyers view vinyl siding as "cheap" and they aren't willing to pay as much for it, than for a comparable home with standard types of siding.

    So, what kind of siding should you use? Depends on your location, the style of your home, the quality of the neighborhood, and your aesthetic preferences. The most durable will be stucco, the old style, thick plaster, not this new EIFS garbage which is merely a skim coating of mortar over a foam backer. Cement plank siding is also very durable and looks great (clapboard style ), Masonite plank siding holds up well, as long as it is kept up well. Plywood siding, aka T1-11, isn't a bad choice either, or a combination of plywood and clapboard style siding.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    I have the HardiPlank cement board siding and couldn't be happier. It holds paint extremely well, does not burn, termites don't like it and water intrusion will not make it deteriorate, as with wood based products.

    I don't share Spruce's contempt for vinyl siding, but as with any material, the quality of the installation is very important. With vinyl, the use of proper trim strips is critical. Also, a worker with a heavy hammer who tightens the nails down too tight will cause the siding to warp badly in the heat of the summer, possibly permanently. Plastic expands and contracts greatly with the temperature changes and that movement must be provided for. This is why you will NEVER see dark colored vinyl siding, as it cannot handle the additional heat.

    Speaking as an old painting contractor, I have never been a fan of T-111 or wood composition siding. With either, I would suggest a coat of oil based primer followed by a couple coats of an acrylic based housepaint. T-111 is basically textured plywood. Plywood grain tends to shrink with age and the grain opens up. An acrylic based paint has a flexible paint film that will be able to span the grain as it moves.

  7. #7
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    Jul 2014
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Quote Originally Posted by dj1 View Post
    It looks like you will be down to your framing, which is a good thing - it will give you a chance to do things right and to code, as far as insulation, wrapping, etc.

    Windows? go with the above suggestion since new construction windows are designed to go into the framing. Siding? get recommendations from local contractors, who should know better than us what goes better in your area.

    A good approach is to educate yourself ahead of time, before you call any contractors - so that you come armed with useful info.
    After the Aluminum siding is removed, I believe there is a black sheathing material covering wall studs with insulation between the studs. Hopefully, I will not need to replace the sheathing. Without several chalk lines, how will the siding guys know where to nail the siding? They can't nail it to the sheathing. I think I'm going for the Tyvek wrap before they hang the siding.
    As long as the current brick molding and widow sills are in place, I will need to use replacement windows with the exception of cutting in a new window.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    Why do you have your heart set on vinyl siding when there are so many other choices that are far superior in every way? You do understand that vinyl siding is not a water tight product, right? It's bad enough when it is appliec over existing siding, I'd NEVER install it over bare studs, as you're indicating!

    A new window is installed against the framing of the wall, a retrofit window is screwed into the frame of the existing window. A new window looks better, a retrofit is thick and bulky, and personally, I've not been too impressed with their performance either. Brand definitely matters when it comes to windows, regardless of buying new or retrofit.

    Back to my original comment, you do realize that vinyl siding isn't a water tight product, right? If all you have is a tar paper vapor barrior over the studs, this is not going to stand up to the install of the siding, it will be perforated with holes, then you will not only have drafty walls, you will have water getting into them. Tyvek or any other type of vapor barrier alone isn't going to cut it either, you need a solid substrate to successfully install vinyl siding over. By the time you install sheathing AND pay for the sub-par vinyl siding, you could have easily gone with any other type of siding material that will look better, last longer, and actually add value to your house. Vinyl siding is a negative when it comes to resale value. Yes, it really is that bad.
    "I never thought my Aluminum siding nor Vinyl siding was water tight. Unfortunately, Im limited by style, the development is basically Colonial...with small Brick accents and Al siding, inland area off coast of southern Virginia plus my funds are limited...so vinyl it will be. I agree with replacement window comment but I helped install 12 windows from Home Depot after Hurricane Isabel...and I have helped hang vinyl siding on a shed we built from plywood."
    In answer to your next question, how is vinyl not water tight? It just isn't. It is designed to "shed" water, but it won't keep it out completely. Joints leak, "flashings", even if used, are generally inadequate, caulking fails around window and door moldings, and many other issues. In addition, once moisture is behind the siding, it masks dryrot problems until then become severe and expensive to repair.

    In answer to your next question, why is it a negative for resale value? Because it just is. Buyers view vinyl siding as "cheap" and they aren't willing to pay as much for it, than for a comparable home with standard types of siding.

    So, what kind of siding should you use? Depends on your location, the style of your home, the quality of the neighborhood, and your aesthetic preferences. The most durable will be stucco, the old style, thick plaster, not this new EIFS garbage which is merely a skim coating of mortar over a foam backer. Cement plank siding is also very durable and looks great (clapboard style ), Masonite plank siding holds up well, as long as it is kept up well. Plywood siding, aka T1-11, isn't a bad choice either, or a combination of plywood and clapboard style siding.
    "I never thought my Aluminum siding nor Vinyl siding was water tight. Unfortunately, Im limited by style, the development is basically Colonial...with small Brick accents and Al siding, inland area off coast of southern Virginia plus my funds are limited...so vinyl it will be. I agree with replacement window comment but I helped install 12 windows from Home Depot after Hurricane Isabel...and I have helped hang vinyl siding on a shed we built from plywood."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    16

    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Quote Originally Posted by ordjen View Post
    I have the HardiPlank cement board siding and couldn't be happier. It holds paint extremely well, does not burn, termites don't like it and water intrusion will not make it deteriorate, as with wood based products.

    I don't share Spruce's contempt for vinyl siding, but as with any material, the quality of the installation is very important. With vinyl, the use of proper trim strips is critical. Also, a worker with a heavy hammer who tightens the nails down too tight will cause the siding to warp badly in the heat of the summer, possibly permanently. Plastic expands and contracts greatly with the temperature changes and that movement must be provided for. This is why you will NEVER see dark colored vinyl siding, as it cannot handle the additional heat.

    Speaking as an old painting contractor, I have never been a fan of T-111 or wood composition siding. With either, I would suggest a coat of oil based primer followed by a couple coats of an acrylic based housepaint. T-111 is basically textured plywood. Plywood grain tends to shrink with age and the grain opens up. An acrylic based paint has a flexible paint film that will be able to span the grain as it moves.
    " I thank you for your reply. I don't believe I can not afford Hardiplank, however, I like the way it looks more than vinyl. I understand about not nailing it on too tight ...a little practice once on a shed...but how will these guys know where the studs are under the black sheathing without chaulk lines? They can't nail it to the sheathing." Too many decisions to make...

  10. #10
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: I need advice for exterior remodeling and upgrades on 25 yr old housebought last

    Pearberry,

    On more than one occasion I saw you mentioned the following:

    " but how will these guys know where the studs are under the black sheathing without chaulk lines? They can't nail it to the sheathing." Too many decisions to make..."

    What is that "black sheathing" you're talking about?

    Go to your building department and ask them: What are the approved sheathing materials in this town?

    Watch them say: OSB and Plywood.

    The sidings have to be nailed onto wrapped plywood or OSB - the installer won't have to worry about chalk lines, while some installers will run chalk lines, just to make a neater installation job. If you only want to nail sidings onto studs, you won't be able to.

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