Remove not the ancient landmark, which your fathers have set.
Laying in bed this morning, staring at the ceiling fan, I thought of this thread. It occurred to me that you could easily mount the light fixture to a ceiling fan base (the cup that connects the fan to the ceiling ).
I'm not sure that you can buy just the hanger base to a fan, however, you CAN purchase a cheap fan or find a fan at a resale/thrift store and source the base there. Purchase whatever light fixture you want, mate the two, and install it. I would recommend having the hanger base in hand when you purchase the light fixture so that you can see what other trinkets you'd need to mate the two pieces together, it won't be much, that is a guarantee.
Again if I'm wrong, please show us the specific applicable codes- I AM open for learning if I'm wrong
[QUOTE=Mastercarpentry;286572]I can't see any code violations here so long as the basics are properly covered- bulb wattage within spec, box fully covered, mounting secure, and connected properly. If I'm wrong then quote the code and educate me, but don't discourage DIY'ers without a very good reason.
My answer: The junction box must be completely covered. Standard light kits are not made to mount on a round box and are generally too small. Also lining up the screw holes is a problem. The job can be done safely but not legally.
What I have in mind, were it my house, is to use a blank cover and the complete light kit including the threaded rod. Drill a hole large enough for the threaded rod and mount it to the cover.
I consider it part of my job to discourage DIYers. Electrical is generally not intuitive and people can get themselves in a lot of trouble. I have seen a lot of DIY work. One of the most common problems I find is cutting the wires going to switches and receptacles so short it is extremely difficult to replace them. Other problems include mixing up the wires in junction boxes so the neutral is overloaded or the circuit is protected by two breakers thus negating the overcurrent protection, switching the neutral, splicing in open air instead of in a box, taping wires instead of using wirenuts, loose wirenuts.
I was once working on an evaporative cooler. The owner had somehow removed the ground from the cooler and hooked the hot leg to the frame. I was called out because the cooler wasn't working. It was hot and I was sweaty. I touched the cooler and was shocked so hard I nearly fell off the roof. Another time the owner wired a dryer wrong so that the frame of the dryer hot. He was laying down on a moist floor, touched ground, touched the dryer and died. I was called to write a report for the insurance company.
The list of potentially fatal mistakes is endless.
Last edited by John freeman; 02-08-2014 at 10:42 AM.
John, these forums are all about helping DIY'ers and I believe we do that quite well. If you look around and read what we talk of inre things electrical, you'll see that we never recommend people do anything they do not fully understand and are comfortable doing, and if in reading their posts we see that they may not be able to handle it, then we tell them all to call in a Pro for safety's sake. More to the point, we never recommend that anyone do anything complex or easily made into a dangerous situation, electrical or otherwise. But to believe that the average DIY'er isn't capable of changing out a light fixture is demeaning to their intellect and ours too. It's a very simple operation as you should well know.
I also have to wonder about your own approach being the cause of your differing position compared to ours. I for one, along with most of the other Pro's here, would never approach diagnosing someone's botched electrical work without testing for current before touching any metal parts which may be involved and/or cutting the current before going in. We've all been 'bit' too many times and don't want it to happen again. If I think there's even a remote possibility of encountering current where it shouldn't be I cut the current first, then trace out the circuit. And that's what we recommend here for the DIY'ers. Working on a live circuit can be handled by most of us but we don't recommend it for anyone else.
You're free to have your own opinion and express it, but if your idea of helping someone is to always tell them "you can't do it, you must have someone like me do it" then you're not going to win any popularity polls here because that is not our aim here. We're here to help people do things for themselves, sharing our knowledge and experience and showing them how to do what they want to do safely. We always stress that part. We always will. And when it seems someone is 'getting in over their head' we're the first to tell them to get a Pro involved before they get hurt or do more damage than already exists. In this case, the OP shows enough sense to understand our replies and seems fully capable of handling this so we've tried to help them achieve their goals because that's better than leaving them on their own with nobody pointing out where pitfalls may be and how to avoid them.
And again you've stated that this is somehow 'not kosher' and still failed to do as I asked and quote the relevant codes to show where I am wrong in my assesment. So if you've got something to add here, add that first or stop making that claim and don't be discouraging DIY'ers who are capable of safely doing what you do once they are armed with our collective knowledge.
Last edited by Mastercarpentry; 02-09-2014 at 08:54 AM.
Excellent post Phil, I'd like to add one small detail to an otherwise spot on commentary.
Good discussion folks.
It prompted me to open my 2013 UL Guide Information for Electrical Equipment AKA as the UL "White Book".
The closest thing related was the IEZR listing for Incandescent Surface-mounted Luminares (lights).
If the light kit has the label "PUSH CONDUCTORS INTO JUNCTION BOX" it allows the light to be mounted in just about any listed box, using approved locknuts, bushings etc. Whether China actually applied such a label is anyone's guess.
If the light can only be mounted on a wall it will say "WALL MOUNT ONLY".
So, If done correctly IMO it's perfectly legal. Other restrictions could be Dry locations only, suitable for dry or damp locations etc. In fact what the OP is asking is to take a listed light and mounting it on a listed enclosure, which much better than building a light yourself like, so many artist do.
Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
Maurice Turgeon, Hidden Content
- We turn up our noses and say "you aren't qualified to do that," so they get irritated at us and try to figure it out on their own. At best it works, at worst they burn down their houses and kill someone. In the end, they learn nothing.
- We explain how to do it (with appropriate cautions) safely and correctly, and let THEM decide if they understand our instructions enough to do it themselves. Many people, upon reading instructions, may realize they are in fact unqualified and hire a pro. And if they do that, they are in a better position to judge the value of the pro they hire.
Most people want to do it right; otherwise they wouldn't be turning here for advice. We should never assume that any reader understands the basics, whether it be a specific discipline such as electricity, plumbing, carpentry, tile, etc.; or general practices such as safety and technique.
Step-by-step instructions found on the Internet are only useful when the situation conforms to the preconceived assumptions of the writer. They cannot help when the DIY-er encounters a situation that doesn't conform. That's one of the practical differences between a novice and an expert: the ability to adapt to non-conforming situations.
The "Senior Member" designation under my name doesn't mean I know a lot, it just means I talk a lot.I've been a DIYer since I was 12 (thanks, Dad!). I have read several books on various home improvement topics. I do not have any current code books I can refer to. I was an apprentice plumber for two years.
Last edited by John freeman; 02-15-2014 at 01:21 PM.
If this were something that were a hazard, there isn't one person amongst us that would be recommending any adaptations of components to the situation. Quote the code as to why this would not be acceptable, better yet, quote the statutes that make modifications of this nature illegal, whether in your location or the OP's location, or nation wide.
We are not trying to be hard asses here, we're trying to provide accurate information, and unsubstantiated conjecture does not qualify in that regard. Quote the code book or legislation that backs up your position, that's all we're asking.