+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,133

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    You might be able to modify a standard light fixture by installing a pull chain switch in the canopy where it attaches to the junction box.

    As for using a fan light, I don't believe there is any way to adapt it using off-the-shelf parts without some modification. Sure, you can modify another electrical box cover for the purpose, but that will nullify its UL listing, and some inspectors won't approve the use of modified parts. (The UL listing is only valid for an unmodified device used as the manufacturer intended.)
    Point taken, but they make 4" round box covers with knockouts for conduit, so he could legally use one of those.
    http://www.garvinindustries.com/elec...devices/54c6-r
    Casey
    Remove not the ancient landmark, which your fathers have set.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,941

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Laying in bed this morning, staring at the ceiling fan, I thought of this thread. It occurred to me that you could easily mount the light fixture to a ceiling fan base (the cup that connects the fan to the ceiling ).

    I'm not sure that you can buy just the hanger base to a fan, however, you CAN purchase a cheap fan or find a fan at a resale/thrift store and source the base there. Purchase whatever light fixture you want, mate the two, and install it. I would recommend having the hanger base in hand when you purchase the light fixture so that you can see what other trinkets you'd need to mate the two pieces together, it won't be much, that is a guarantee.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,915

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    you can modify another electrical box cover for the purpose, but that will nullify its UL listing, and some inspectors won't approve the use of modified parts. (The UL listing is only valid for an unmodified device used as the manufacturer intended.)
    But you're not 'modifying' the light or mounting it in a way that it's not normally mounted. That covers the light itself being unmodified, and since box covers are made which come with holes you're not doing anything out of the norm with them either. I think any inspector would go for it if explained this way so long as the rest is right.

    Again if I'm wrong, please show us the specific applicable codes- I AM open for learning if I'm wrong

    Phil

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    [QUOTE=Mastercarpentry;286572]I can't see any code violations here so long as the basics are properly covered- bulb wattage within spec, box fully covered, mounting secure, and connected properly. If I'm wrong then quote the code and educate me, but don't discourage DIY'ers without a very good reason.

    My answer: The junction box must be completely covered. Standard light kits are not made to mount on a round box and are generally too small. Also lining up the screw holes is a problem. The job can be done safely but not legally.

    What I have in mind, were it my house, is to use a blank cover and the complete light kit including the threaded rod. Drill a hole large enough for the threaded rod and mount it to the cover.

    I consider it part of my job to discourage DIYers. Electrical is generally not intuitive and people can get themselves in a lot of trouble. I have seen a lot of DIY work. One of the most common problems I find is cutting the wires going to switches and receptacles so short it is extremely difficult to replace them. Other problems include mixing up the wires in junction boxes so the neutral is overloaded or the circuit is protected by two breakers thus negating the overcurrent protection, switching the neutral, splicing in open air instead of in a box, taping wires instead of using wirenuts, loose wirenuts.

    I was once working on an evaporative cooler. The owner had somehow removed the ground from the cooler and hooked the hot leg to the frame. I was called out because the cooler wasn't working. It was hot and I was sweaty. I touched the cooler and was shocked so hard I nearly fell off the roof. Another time the owner wired a dryer wrong so that the frame of the dryer hot. He was laying down on a moist floor, touched ground, touched the dryer and died. I was called to write a report for the insurance company.

    The list of potentially fatal mistakes is endless.
    Last edited by John freeman; 02-08-2014 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,915

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    John, these forums are all about helping DIY'ers and I believe we do that quite well. If you look around and read what we talk of inre things electrical, you'll see that we never recommend people do anything they do not fully understand and are comfortable doing, and if in reading their posts we see that they may not be able to handle it, then we tell them all to call in a Pro for safety's sake. More to the point, we never recommend that anyone do anything complex or easily made into a dangerous situation, electrical or otherwise. But to believe that the average DIY'er isn't capable of changing out a light fixture is demeaning to their intellect and ours too. It's a very simple operation as you should well know.

    I also have to wonder about your own approach being the cause of your differing position compared to ours. I for one, along with most of the other Pro's here, would never approach diagnosing someone's botched electrical work without testing for current before touching any metal parts which may be involved and/or cutting the current before going in. We've all been 'bit' too many times and don't want it to happen again. If I think there's even a remote possibility of encountering current where it shouldn't be I cut the current first, then trace out the circuit. And that's what we recommend here for the DIY'ers. Working on a live circuit can be handled by most of us but we don't recommend it for anyone else.

    You're free to have your own opinion and express it, but if your idea of helping someone is to always tell them "you can't do it, you must have someone like me do it" then you're not going to win any popularity polls here because that is not our aim here. We're here to help people do things for themselves, sharing our knowledge and experience and showing them how to do what they want to do safely. We always stress that part. We always will. And when it seems someone is 'getting in over their head' we're the first to tell them to get a Pro involved before they get hurt or do more damage than already exists. In this case, the OP shows enough sense to understand our replies and seems fully capable of handling this so we've tried to help them achieve their goals because that's better than leaving them on their own with nobody pointing out where pitfalls may be and how to avoid them.

    And again you've stated that this is somehow 'not kosher' and still failed to do as I asked and quote the relevant codes to show where I am wrong in my assesment. So if you've got something to add here, add that first or stop making that claim and don't be discouraging DIY'ers who are capable of safely doing what you do once they are armed with our collective knowledge.

    Sincerely,
    Phil
    Last edited by Mastercarpentry; 02-09-2014 at 09:54 AM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,941

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Excellent post Phil, I'd like to add one small detail to an otherwise spot on commentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastercarpentry View Post
    We're here to help people do things for themselves, sharing our knowledge and experience and showing them how to do what they want to do safely. We always stress that part. We always will.
    Safely and correctly. Safety first, always, whether that means DIY or bringing in a pro. And correctly, which as we all know, can be a judgment call at times, as in this particular instance. Every single one of us has come upon an instance or two, or 10, or hundreds, where we needed to fudge something just a little - while still being safe and sound - to get the job done. In a perfect world, there would be a light fixture suited to the purpose, but evidence has shown that it does not, so, here we have this discussion going on.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    693

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Good discussion folks.

    It prompted me to open my 2013 UL Guide Information for Electrical Equipment AKA as the UL "White Book".

    The closest thing related was the IEZR listing for Incandescent Surface-mounted Luminares (lights).

    If the light kit has the label "PUSH CONDUCTORS INTO JUNCTION BOX" it allows the light to be mounted in just about any listed box, using approved locknuts, bushings etc. Whether China actually applied such a label is anyone's guess.

    If the light can only be mounted on a wall it will say "WALL MOUNT ONLY".

    So, If done correctly IMO it's perfectly legal. Other restrictions could be Dry locations only, suitable for dry or damp locations etc. In fact what the OP is asking is to take a listed light and mounting it on a listed enclosure, which much better than building a light yourself like, so many artist do.
    Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, Hidden Content

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwet
    Posts
    1,565

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    Excellent post Phil, I'd like to add one small detail to an otherwise spot on commentary.

    Safely and correctly. Safety first, always, whether that means DIY or bringing in a pro. And correctly, which as we all know, can be a judgment call at times, as in this particular instance. Every single one of us has come upon an instance or two, or 10, or hundreds, where we needed to fudge something just a little - while still being safe and sound - to get the job done. In a perfect world, there would be a light fixture suited to the purpose, but evidence has shown that it does not, so, here we have this discussion going on.
    Two options:
    1. We turn up our noses and say "you aren't qualified to do that," so they get irritated at us and try to figure it out on their own. At best it works, at worst they burn down their houses and kill someone. In the end, they learn nothing.
    2. We explain how to do it (with appropriate cautions) safely and correctly, and let THEM decide if they understand our instructions enough to do it themselves. Many people, upon reading instructions, may realize they are in fact unqualified and hire a pro. And if they do that, they are in a better position to judge the value of the pro they hire.


    Most people want to do it right; otherwise they wouldn't be turning here for advice. We should never assume that any reader understands the basics, whether it be a specific discipline such as electricity, plumbing, carpentry, tile, etc.; or general practices such as safety and technique.

    Step-by-step instructions found on the Internet are only useful when the situation conforms to the preconceived assumptions of the writer. They cannot help when the DIY-er encounters a situation that doesn't conform. That's one of the practical differences between a novice and an expert: the ability to adapt to non-conforming situations.
    The "Senior Member" designation under my name doesn't mean I know a lot, it just means I talk a lot.I've been a DIYer since I was 12 (thanks, Dad!). I have read several books on various home improvement topics. I do not have any current code books I can refer to. I was an apprentice plumber for two years.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastercarpentry View Post
    John, these forums are all about helping DIY'ers and I believe we do that quite well. If you look around and read what we talk of inre things electrical, you'll see that we never recommend people do anything they do not fully understand and are comfortable doing, and if in reading their posts we see that they may not be able to handle it, then we tell them all to call in a Pro for safety's sake. More to the point, we never recommend that anyone do anything complex or easily made into a dangerous situation, electrical or otherwise. But to believe that the average DIY'er isn't capable of changing out a light fixture is demeaning to their intellect and ours too. It's a very simple operation as you should well know.

    I also have to wonder about your own approach being the cause of your differing position compared to ours. I for one, along with most of the other Pro's here, would never approach diagnosing someone's botched electrical work without testing for current before touching any metal parts which may be involved and/or cutting the current before going in. We've all been 'bit' too many times and don't want it to happen again. If I think there's even a remote possibility of encountering current where it shouldn't be I cut the current first, then trace out the circuit. And that's what we recommend here for the DIY'ers. Working on a live circuit can be handled by most of us but we don't recommend it for anyone else.

    You're free to have your own opinion and express it, but if your idea of helping someone is to always tell them "you can't do it, you must have someone like me do it" then you're not going to win any popularity polls here because that is not our aim here. We're here to help people do things for themselves, sharing our knowledge and experience and showing them how to do what they want to do safely. We always stress that part. We always will. And when it seems someone is 'getting in over their head' we're the first to tell them to get a Pro involved before they get hurt or do more damage than already exists. In this case, the OP shows enough sense to understand our replies and seems fully capable of handling this so we've tried to help them achieve their goals because that's better than leaving them on their own with nobody pointing out where pitfalls may be and how to avoid them.

    And again you've stated that this is somehow 'not kosher' and still failed to do as I asked and quote the relevant codes to show where I am wrong in my assesment. So if you've got something to add here, add that first or stop making that claim and don't be discouraging DIY'ers who are capable of safely doing what you do once they are armed with our collective knowledge.

    Sincerely,
    Phil
    I agree with most of what you posted, however your criticisms are unfair. I pointed out there is no legal way to do what he wants. This is important information. I then explained in my answer to you why there is no legal way to do the job but offered a safe alternative. I have thirty years in the trade, am a retired electrical contractor and have had a Masters License in two different localities. I know what I am talking about and have posted on this site a number of times with my insights. If you check my other posts you will see I am not discouraging people, I explain what to do and what the issues are. This time I pointed out there is no legal way to do the job, he needs to know that. I did not explain as fully as I could have but I hardly think that justifies your attitude. DIY work scares the dickens out of me because it can start fires and kill people. I was almost a victim myself. I think these people are smart to seek help by coming to this site and I will help out as much as I can. I have seen it all and will always preach caution and point out pitfalls.
    Last edited by John freeman; 02-15-2014 at 02:21 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,941

    Default Re: Can you adapt a fan light as a ceiling light?

    Quote Originally Posted by John freeman View Post
    I pointed out there is no legal way to do what he wants. This is important information.
    Again, quote the specific codes that apply to make this "illegal". We are aware that this isn't a normally accepted installation, however, there are no code issues with the advice given to warrant your responses or that would make it "illegal".

    If this were something that were a hazard, there isn't one person amongst us that would be recommending any adaptations of components to the situation. Quote the code as to why this would not be acceptable, better yet, quote the statutes that make modifications of this nature illegal, whether in your location or the OP's location, or nation wide.

    We are not trying to be hard asses here, we're trying to provide accurate information, and unsubstantiated conjecture does not qualify in that regard. Quote the code book or legislation that backs up your position, that's all we're asking.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •