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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    3

    Default Boiler piping for baseborad hotwater heating.

    Hi,

    I have a question about the house I bought and the piping for the boiler system. Coming into the boiler is 1/2 feeding the baseboards is 3/4 and there is some 1 inch I am assuming in there in certain spots. I want to know if everything should be 3/4? I am having trouble on getting air out of the system and thought this maybe causing the issue with all the different piping in the system. The sound of water rushing in the pipes is driving me nuts. Also can I re pipe everything with pex and just have copper at the baseboards? Thanks for any help you can provide on this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    93

    Default Re: Boiler piping for baseborad hotwater heating.

    400xt,

    I would ignore the different size piping for the moment (it has nothing to do with air in the system) & try to get the air out of the piping---you can remove the thin metal baseboard end caps in the highest rooms in the system,or front pieces of thin steel baseboard covers to reveal the BLEED VALVES that can be at either ends of the baseboards---take a small cup to catch the water & use a screwdriver to loosen the top of the bleed valve (counter-clockwise) to open the valve to let the air out, then tighten it (clockwise) when water starts to come out---put a drop or 2 of lubricating oil on the valve if it won't open easily-----start at the HIGHEST POINTS OF THE BASEBOARD PIPING SYSTEM first, since air tends to accumulate at the highest points in the system.

    The thin metal baseboard covers can usually be easily removed/replaced by pulling gently at the end covers.

    Consult the site below to see examples of what bleed valves look like on ends of the baseboards.


    http://www.google.com/search?h|=en&n...62.ENNJcnQcH7U
    Last edited by brewster; 11-06-2013 at 12:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Boiler piping for baseborad hotwater heating.

    I only wish it was the easy. I wish I knew what I know now about this house before I bought it. There are no bleeders on the baseboard heaters. If i could meet the person that was responsible for building this house I would ring there neck

    I had a home inspection done before I bought the house that I guess that turned out to be an big waste of money. When you hire them you sign a sheet saying they are not responsible for anything they do not see or miss argh!!!!

    my only options are now start ripping the heat system apart and add things in that should be there.

    Even down at the boiler I have 2 zones I have never had a hot water heating system before and from the knowledge I gain since I bought this house quite a bit I know it is all wrong. They have it zoned the weirdest way. The front of the split entry is one zone and the back of the house is the other zone argh!!!!

    There is only one drain valve in the entire system. After the two zones. So what I am thinking on doing is put two drain valves one in each zone before the shutoffs i installed. Do you think this would work f bleeding them? I have tried at the one drain valve but am not having much luck.

    Thanks for the help.



    Quote Originally Posted by brewster View Post
    400xt,

    I would ignore the different size piping for the moment (it has nothing to do with air in the system) & try to get the air out of the piping---you can remove the thin metal baseboard end caps in the highest rooms in the system,or front pieces of thin steel baseboard covers to reveal the BLEED VALVES that can be at either ends of the baseboards---take a small cup to catch the water & use a screwdriver to loosen the top of the bleed valve (counter-clockwise) to open the valve to let the air out, then tighten it (clockwise) when water starts to come out---put a drop or 2 of lubricating oil on the valve if it won't open easily-----start at the HIGHEST POINTS OF THE BASEBOARD PIPING SYSTEM first, since air tends to accumulate at the highest points in the system.

    The thin metal baseboard covers can usually be easily removed/replaced by pulling gently at the end covers.

    Consult the site below to see examples of what bleed valves look like on ends of the baseboards.


    http://www.google.com/search?h|=en&n...62.ENNJcnQcH7U

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Boiler piping for baseborad hotwater heating.

    Hi brewster,

    I replied last night but dont see it here. Anyways what I said in short form is there are no bleeders on the baseboards only one drain at the boiler after the returns. I did try and bleed from there and thought I had it all the bubbles stopped coming out after a couple of buckets of water.

    What I plan on doing is cutting the pipes up stairs and putting in some bleeders. I think this will be the best and simplest thing to do and if no luck with that I will look for another issue. My pressure is staying ok at the boiler so I dont think I have any other issue.

    Also may install an air scoop I think it is called. When I was at the plumbing store he said he had two one for 50 which he said he did not like very much it was a watts and another for 250 never got the name of it but he said it worked alot better. But I have heard that about other things in the past.

    Thanks again for your reply.

    David

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: Boiler piping for baseborad hotwater heating.

    David,

    Before you cut into the pipes to add vents or an air scoop, do one or two more simple things for us:

    1) First, check to see if there is a little FLOAT VALVE VENT (see inspectapedia image below) on the main horizontal SUPPLY PIPE coming out of the boiler-----this is known as a hydronic float air vent & is often combined with an Air Scoop & it works by mostly automatically venting air in the piping system while the hot water is circulating inside the pipes & the boiler pump/circulator is on-----there is a LITTLE FLOAT inside this valve that will open the valve when air is present in the piping---the air is expelled as the water is pumped, & the screw-top float at the top of the valve automatically closes so no hot water escapes-----unfortunately, this screw-top float VERY OFTEN becomes clogged with crud & the valve becomes inoperative----however, simply unscrewing the top of the float valve & gently tapping the valve shaft with your finger will clear any crud that will easily be removed by the flow of the water---hold your thumb over the screw-on top if & when water comes gushing out & have a small pail ready to catch some of the water, if needed.

    You should be able to get this valve operating again (if you currently have one on your system) so that it removes most of the air out of the pipes when the system is running & the circulator (pump) is pumping water thru the system during a heating cycle.


    2) Since your system has no bleed valves on the individual baseboards, you most probably have an air-elimination system that no doubt has a PURGE VALVE or two (as you mentioned in your post) located at the near-boiler piping, as you mentioned in your recent post----usually at the return, & they often look like ordinary faucets; this is a little more complicated way of flushing the system of air, & you should get help from a heating tech before trying this, but should also be tried before you spend money for equipment that you may not need, especially the high expense of a spirovent or air scoop---they are both effective, but first try the other things mentioned in this post---an AIR-SCOOP and a small FLOAT VALVE are usually combined when this option is installed---these cost lots less than the Spirovent & the less costly item will do the job just as well in most cases; the Air Scoop has several small diagonal metal vanes (baffles) inside the housing that separate the air from the pumped hot water; the air then gravitates up to the automatic little air float valve that opens to expel the air out of the system.

    3) On the other hand, if you know how to shut down the system, unsolder/re-solder & change out a few baseboard elbows/couplings for a simple bleed valve install at the highest points in the system, then refill the system (only a gallon or so need be removed), this may also be a good way to go; check different plumbing supply stores, the Air Scoop +Float valve should be approx $30 or less.

    Consult the site below to view examples of hydronic float air vents---if you have one at the main supply pipe, it should look something like image # 4, 6, 14, 19,20, 22, or 23---also click onto the schematic diagram to see an enlarged view of how these are installed in a boiler system---the float vent can be installed by itself, or in combo with an Air Scoop; as noted previously, you have to unscrew & remove the little screwcap on the top & tap the little metal shaft inside the valve with your index finger until you get a good flow of water---then cover the little hole with your index finger until you can screw the little cap back on to the thread---don't worry if you lose some water, the system will automatically replenish any lost water.

    Consult the 2nd site below to see an image of an installed combo AIR SCOOP/AIR FLOAT VALVE.

    Also Google "hydronic heating purge valve air removal system" to get more info on this way to remove air from the system.

    It might also be a good idea to contact a heating service person to come over the house & show you how to use the purge valve method of bleeding air from the system (each system requires a slightly different purge technique, depending on any zone valves or other components you have) if you indeed have this type of air removal method on your system.



    http://www.google.com/search?h|=en&t...D|ew0QG1i|DgBA
    http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Air_Scoops.htm
    Last edited by brewster; 11-08-2013 at 05:46 AM.

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