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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Guarantee for life finishes

    Has anyone had experience with the guaranteed ceramic finishes such as Rhino Shield? I can't seem to keep any regular solid stains to stay on my cedar clapboards without peeling after only one winter.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Portland, Oregon, formerly of Chicago

    Default Re: Guarantee for life finishes


    This topic came up a few months ago. Now as then, I have my reservations about such miracle products. It claims to be elastomeric. So is an acrylic stain or paint. It claims to a breathable coating, but fails to give its "perm" rating. Acrylic paint/stain also breathes. It claims to be 10 to 12 times thicker than a coat of paint. That would be 40 to 50 millimeters which is one thick coat! Again, what is the perm rating of a 4 millimeter coat of acrylic paint as opposed to a 40 milimeter coat of Rino Shield? Why am I concerned with the permeabilty of a coating? Because most peeling down to bare wood is an indication that moisture is present in the wood. When the hot sun hits a moisture laden wooden siding, vapor pressure (steam) is formed in the wood and the paint popping is a sign of the vapor forcing its way out! Further, cedar and redwood siding is laden with tannic acids which can also lessen adhesion , as well as bleed through and cause reddish staining of the paint film. If water vapor does not work its way out, it stays in the wall cavity possibly causing dry rot and mildew.

    I am curious as to what stain product you have been using? Was it oil or acrylic based? Was it solid hide or semi-transparent?Did you prime under the stain and if so with what? Traditionally, an oil based primer would be used under stains on cedar or redwood to control tannic bleeding, as well as giving good adhesion. However, there are now water borne primers such as Kilz Premium which claim to control these factors. Water borne primers are more permeable than oil products in general.

    I am also curious as to the full wording of their guarantee. What are they going to recompence, the materials cost or the full cost of the coating? Most manufacturers are smart enough to know that the average american stays in a house for only several years and they build a certain amount of guarantee payments into the operating cost.

    On an optimum substrate, a quality acrylic paint/stain will last for many years. The question is why your substrate is somewhat lacking and what you might do to improve it?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Fargo, ND

    Default Backpriming done?!?!

    MOST of the time, IF it's rougher cedar clapboards, the backsides benefit from having a coat of primer.

    Otherwise...no matter HOW breathable the OUTER paint film is, too much moisture gets in from the backside, and pushes out the front, therefore the peeling.

    Once the outer side is primed and painted or stained, backpriming keeps moisture from entering via the backside!!

    Homes that don't have the greatest insulation/tyvex wraps, CAN lose a lot of moisture outward thru the siding as well.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Wink Re: Guarantee for life finishes

    First off, water trapped in the wood making paint pop is not common, unless you are painting some very fresh "Green" wood or you are painting wet wood.

    The main causes for peeling is improperly treated chalky surfaces before repainting. Applying latex over oil without the proper priming. Or Applying a oil based product on a wet "Humid" surface.

    Before top coating a chalky surface, you should pressure wash and chalk seal it with a chalk sealer, or Use an Emulsifying bounder "EB" in your paint. I use this on the first coat, because it tends to change the color slightly and can cause blemishes in a glossy paint.

    If you have a peeling problem, it will most likely keep peeling no mater what. you best bet is to sc**** as much as possible using a right angle sc****r, sand, then apply a good primer on the whole problem area, then topcoat with your desired product. It will minimize the peeling.

    But any paint that is not properly adhered to the surface might have moisture trapped behind it, which could cause peeling "popping" as described on previous posts, but it would do so from being trapped in between layers of paint "not from moisture in the wood".

    As for Rhlamkin, it sounds like you are applying a water based product over a oil based product.

    You can test that pretty easily using a rag with a little lacquer thinner or acetone "nail polish remover" and rub an inconspicuous area, if the top layer comes off and the under layer does not, you have a water based product over oil. These chemicals will not take the oil based product off, but will eat up that latex.

    You have a couple options, strip the whole thing and start from scratch Or sc**** the hell out of it, sand and topcoat with a oil based product. Make sure your surface is dry and the humidity level in the air is low, it should say on the can what humidity % is acceptable.

    And for Lifetime finishes, Yes, some of these products can last you a lifetime, but the product is going to only adhere as good as you substrate.

    So, if you have a problematic surface. I would NOT recommend spending big money on a lifetime product, because it WILL peel again, it is just a mater of when not if.

    Keep us posted on your project.


    Steve Bolduc LA

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