+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Abington, MA
    Posts
    17

    Default Need new water heater option

    I currently have a oil fired Peerless boiler that heats a two story 1680sqft home and provides hot water via an Amtrol boiler mate. I belive its an indirect hot water heater system. The boiler mate has started to leak just after the 6 yr mark no warrantee left. To replace the tank will cost $1500 to $2800 depending on which type of tank I go with. However my concern has been the cost of replacing it and also the current cost of oil at $3.60 gal. Am I better off going with a high efficency electric water heater? Only two of us in the home. Indirect or electric to save? I figure I burn at least 1 gallon of oil a day to heat the water (maybe a little less) but $3.60 x 30days= $108 a month for hot water.
    Last edited by dmontrond; 12-03-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,381

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    I would go with electric if I were you, and go with a conventional 40 gallon tank, but get a high end model that is well insulated. I would also suggest that you buy it from a big box store and arrange installation through them. If you hire a contractor first, they are likely to install a cheap model.

    The cost to operate an electric should be about the same as your oil fired unit, bit it should be a lot cheaper to have an electric installed. One thing that may be a problem will be if you have an adequate 220VAC circuit where the heater is going to go and if you don't, how much will it cost to have it run.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South*East
    Posts
    1,168

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    I question your statement that your burning 1 gal. per day to make hot water. Your oil burner is firing about .75 gal per hr. That would mean that for hot water it's running for more then 1 hr. per day just for hot water.

    John

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Abington, MA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    Quote Originally Posted by keith3267 View Post
    I would go with electric if I were you, and go with a conventional 40 gallon tank, but get a high end model that is well insulated. I would also suggest that you buy it from a big box store and arrange installation through them. If you hire a contractor first, they are likely to install a cheap model.

    The cost to operate an electric should be about the same as your oil fired unit, bit it should be a lot cheaper to have an electric installed. One thing that may be a problem will be if you have an adequate 220VAC circuit where the heater is going to go and if you don't, how much will it cost to have it run.

    Thank you for the response Keith. However I'm looking for the overall long term savings. I have been told and read some places that the indirect offers the best recovery and most hot water of any system. But when its being done by oil and at the current price it is expensive. If it's going to cost me the same to run electric as an indirect should I stay with the indirect to get more hot water when I need it?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Abington, MA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    Quote Originally Posted by johnjh2o View Post
    I question your statement that your burning 1 gal. per day to make hot water. Your oil burner is firing about .75 gal per hr. That would mean that for hot water it's running for more then 1 hr. per day just for hot water.

    John
    John. I'm not sure if that number is correct. That is based on some conversations with industry professionals (plumbers, HVAC) and based on info from some other forums. Im not well versed in this and that is why Im searching for more info and feedback before making a decision. One thing I know is that I'm burning thru oil quite fast. At least in the last few years. I have programable stats (two zones) and I keep the heat at a minimum 67, 68. The only other thing that can be eating the fuel is the water heater. The home is 7yrs old and last year I had more blown insulation added to the attic, air sealed and all. So that is why I'm questioning this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    I agree with John.

    I have almost the same sq.footage in my house and also live in the Northeast; I've had an Amtrol Boilermate for the past 10 years and I love it; during the heating season, it is hard to determine how much oil is spent separately on DHW and heating the house, because the boiler heats up the water to go thru the radiators/baseboard, & that same hot water goes thru the coiled piping inside the Amtrol HWH.

    There is a SIX YEAR warranty on Amtrol products, so I don't know where you got the info on just a 3 year warranty---contact Amtrol directly at www.amtrol.com to formally file your claim.

    There are 30 gallon indirect hot water heaters (IHWHs) available that would result in lower heating bills, if you just have a family of 2; I took some steps to cut down on my oil bill---5 years ago I was burning 1100 gal./heating season---i had an insulation co. come over to blow in some cellulose insulation in all the exterior walls & top off the amount in the attic---this in combination with having dual-pane vinyl storm windows installed worked wonders-----my annual oil usage dropped from 1100 gal to 600 gal/heating season; I also zoned off the 2nd floor from the 1st floor with separate zone valves & rented out the 2nd floor apt.; the added income is a plus, but the tax write-off for repairs & supplies to the rented half is a real money-saver.

    I would say if you are not sure if you have insulation in all exterior walls of the house, get it checked out---blown in insulation is very cheap & it saves on cooling bills in the summer, as well as greatly reduces oil consumption in the winter.

    You didn't say if natural gas is available in your neighborhood yet---if you have the option, switching to NG would also be a real moneysaver.
    Last edited by Dobbs; 12-04-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    I agree with John.

    I have almost the same sq.footage in my house and also live in the Northeast; I've had an Amtrol Boilermate for the past 10 years and I love it; during the heating season, it is hard to determine how much oil is spent separately on DHW and heating the house, because the boiler heats up the water to go thru the radiators/baseboard, & that same hot water goes thru the coiled piping inside the Amtrol HWH.

    There is a SIX YEAR warranty on Amtrol products, so I don't know where you got the info on just a 3 year warranty---contact Amtrol directly at www.amtrol.com to formally file your claim.

    There are 30 gallon indirect hot water heaters (IHWHs) available that would result in lower heating bills, if you just have a family of 2; I took some steps to cut down on my oil bill---5 years ago I was burning 1100 gal./heating season---i had an insulation co. come over to blow in some cellulose insulation in all the exterior walls & top off the amount in the attic---this in combination with having dual-pane vinyl storm windows installed worked wonders-0-annual oil usage dropped from 1100 gal to 600 gal/heating season; I also zoned off the 2nd floor from the 1st floor with separate zone valves & rented out the 2nd floor apt.; the added income is a plus, but the tax write-off for repairs & supplies to the rented half is a real money-saver.

    I would say if you are not sure if you have insulation in all exterior walls of the house, get it checked out---blown in insulation is very cheap & it saves on cooling bills in the summer, as well as greatly reduces oil consumption in the winter.
    Last edited by Dobbs; 12-04-2012 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Abington, MA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    I agree with John.

    I have almost the same sq.footage in my house and also live in the Northeast; I've had an Amtrol Boilermate for the past 10 years and I love it; during the heating season, it is hard to determine how much oil is spent separately on DHW and heating the house, because the boiler heats up the water to go thru the radiators/baseboard, & that same hot water goes thru the coiled piping inside the Amtrol HWH.

    There is a SIX YEAR warranty on Amtrol products, so I don't know where you got the info on just a 3 year warranty---contact Amtrol directly at to formally file your claim.

    There are 30 gallon indirect hot water heaters (IHWHs) available that would result in lower heating bills, if you just have a family of 2; I took some steps to cut down on my oil bill---5 years ago I was burning 1100 gal./heating season---i had an insulation co. come over to blow in some cellulose insulation in all the exterior walls & top off the amount in the attic---this in combination with having dual-pane vinyl storm windows installed worked wonders-0-annual oil usage dropped from 1100 gal to 600 gal/heating season; I also zoned off the 2nd floor from the 1st floor with separate zone valves & rented out the 2nd floor apt.; the added income in a plus, but the tax write-off for repairs & supplies to the rented half is a real money-saver.

    I would say if you are not sure if you have insulation in all exterior walls of the house, get it checked out---blown in insulation is very cheap & it saves on cooling bills in the summer, as well as greatly reduces oil consumption in the winter.
    The Boiler Mate was installed 6.5 years ago when the house was built. The warranty ran out in September of this year. Is it me or do these things know to break right after the warrantee is up. As for the insulation I have R 15 on the outside walls and as I stated I had blown insulation added to the attic last year as well as air sealed. I have two zones also, but as you stated not sure how to calculate what amount of oil is used for water heating vs heating the home.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,381

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    I too think you have over estimated your cost to make hot water, but having used oil when I was stationed in Virginia, I know it can get very expensive. Here is a link to a DOE site that you can use to calculate the cost of heating your water with an electric water heater.

    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/femp/tec...lc.html#output

    Based on this calculator, using the national averages of 64 gallons of hot water per day and $0.09/kwh for electricity, an electric water heater will cost you between $35-38 per month. The difference comes from the amount of insulation for the storage tank.

    Since there is only two of you, you should be using less than the average of 64 gallons per day. A 40 gallon water theater should provide you with all the hot water you will need. Even with the storage temp set at 120F and a cold water temp of 58F where you would mix about 50:50 hot and cold for an 89F shower and a 2.5 gpm shower head, you would have enough hot water in the tank for 32 minutes, not counting recovery time of the water heater. The water heater should recover about 25 gph so that would add about 21 more minutes so you would have a total shower time of 53 minutes. Less if you run the washing machine or dishwasher while showering. If thats not enough, you can go with a 50 gallon model or increase the storage temp, but the average shower is about 8 minutes.

    I just did another search, using different terms and found this web site.

    http://www.oilheatamerica.com/index....n=waterheaters

    Without knowing the specifics of your system, this site claims recovery times of 120 gph at 100F. I would assume that would be for a system that uses .84 gph of oil which would mean that your oil usage would probably be well under a half gallon per day for hot water. That would probably put it close to the cost of electric hot water in terms of operating cost.

    So now it is down to installation costs. If you have an adequate electric service to the water heater location, then the electric will probably have the lowest up front costs and lowest TOC (total owner cost). If you have to have wiring run in your house for this, then that could get really expensive. On the low end, your electric service panel (breaker box) is adequately sized (200 amp), has unused circuits and is close to the water heater location and does not need to run wiring through finished spaces. At the high end, you need to upgrade your service, relocate the breaker box to meet new codes, and you have a long run through finished spaces for the new circuit. That runs into real money (ouch).

    To compare the cost of operating the oil fired hot water heater, you need to find its recovery time. It should be listed somewhere in the product literature you got when you bought the system. I can't seem to find it on the internet. Oil fired should have a higher recovery time than an electric hot water heater. If for example it is rated at 60 gph, then it would run for one hour to provide you with 60 gallons of hot water and depending on which model of peerless boiler your have, that would be between .5 gallons to .84 gallons of oil per day.

    I should also not that the oil fired boiler may be heating the hot water to a higher temp, like 140-160F which means that you actually use less hot water than you would with an electric hot water heater. That's why I think you over estimated your costs.
    Last edited by keith3267; 12-04-2012 at 01:27 PM. Reason: add more info

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Abington, MA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Need new water heater option

    My boiler is a Peerles WV-DV-03-110-WPC

    Input Heating Capacity Net I=B=R Ratings Water AFUE Water content
    GPH MBH MBH MBH % gal
    1.10 154 131 114 84.1 11.75



    Does the input mean it burns 1.10 gals per hour?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •