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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by brrichter View Post
    Please show me where the electrical code requires duct work to be bonded
    552.57

    Maurice, what about dielectric unions? The purpose of them is to electrically separate copper and galvanized steel piping to prevent electrolysis, but it seems that doing an electrical bond as required by the electrical codes would defeat the purpose of the dielectric union (as required by plumbing codes). Are the different codes at odds with each other?

    Fencepost, the EGC to the water heater effectively grounds it and the dielectric unions protect the water heater piping. I always jumper across the CW & HW piping.

    I'm not too familiar with the plumbing codes but they probably do conflict to some degree. A severe ground fault will destroy a cold water line, which seems to bother plumbers.

    Look at the Gas Codes...they really don't like electricians bonding to them and will remove them as soon as the electricians leave.

    Carpenters don't seem to like what we do to their brand new load bearing joists & walls, probably because they fail their inspections over it.

    Sheetrockers have a nasty habit of hiding our boxes, cutting our wires and leaving large gaps around our outlets, which makes us fail our inspections.

    Yes, it's a rare job where everyone gets along.

    Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,089

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Semi-retired:
    You expressed yourself well and truly.
    Let's call it: The electrician's lament.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Sounds good to me. But, I'll bet we only scratched the surface

    Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thsemi-retiredelectrician.com

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by The Semi-Retired Electric View Post
    552.57

    Maurice, what about dielectric unions? The purpose of them is to electrically separate copper and galvanized steel piping to prevent electrolysis, but it seems that doing an electrical bond as required by the electrical codes would defeat the purpose of the dielectric union (as required by plumbing codes). Are the different codes at odds with each other?

    Fencepost, the EGC to the water heater effectively grounds it and the dielectric unions protect the water heater piping. I always jumper across the CW & HW piping.

    I'm not too familiar with the plumbing codes but they probably do conflict to some degree. A severe ground fault will destroy a cold water line, which seems to bother plumbers.

    Look at the Gas Codes...they really don't like electricians bonding to them and will remove them as soon as the electricians leave.

    Carpenters don't seem to like what we do to their brand new load bearing joists & walls, probably because they fail their inspections over it.

    Sheetrockers have a nasty habit of hiding our boxes, cutting our wires and leaving large gaps around our outlets, which makes us fail our inspections.

    Yes, it's a rare job where everyone gets along.

    Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com
    Article 552 refers to park trailers only.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by brrichter View Post
    Article 552 refers to park trailers only.
    552 names ducts, 250.4 (A) (2), (3), (4) just talks about non-current carrying conductive equipment.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    To the OP, the answer is yes- add ground rods as suggested by Maurice.

    As to the "electrician's lament", all trades have a lament or two. This is where a really good general contractor's superintendent shines in making sure nobody screws up someone else's work! At one of the best homes I built, the first thing we did after the foundation went in was to get the plumber, electrician, and HVAC guys together with us to discuss what was to be run where and how. We worked out a structural plan to accommodate all of this where no beams or joists had to be cut and nobody ran into each others work. This house had not only the best structural integrity possible, it also had the happiest crews you've even seen working on it. I sorely miss the GC who did this; sadly he's passed on to better places and nobody since seems to understand the value of thinking this far ahead.
    Better to plan properly with respect than to lament the consequences for not doing that!

    Phil

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Do I Need A Ground Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastercarpentry View Post
    To the OP, the answer is yes- add ground rods as suggested by Maurice.

    As to the "electrician's lament", all trades have a lament or two. This is where a really good general contractor's superintendent shines in making sure nobody screws up someone else's work! At one of the best homes I built, the first thing we did after the foundation went in was to get the plumber, electrician, and HVAC guys together with us to discuss what was to be run where and how. We worked out a structural plan to accommodate all of this where no beams or joists had to be cut and nobody ran into each others work. This house had not only the best structural integrity possible, it also had the happiest crews you've even seen working on it. I sorely miss the GC who did this; sadly he's passed on to better places and nobody since seems to understand the value of thinking this far ahead.
    Better to plan properly with respect than to lament the consequences for not doing that!

    Phil
    Great post Mastercarpentry and a great GC.
    Working on many large projects at a design/build engineering company for the last 28 years we would meet with our clients at least once a month for a year or so before we broke ground.

    Years ago we would huddle around a plastic model of the project, which was accurate to 1/8". All the disiplines would move a model man around to see if all the valves and controls could be reached; if pipes were in the way of ducts etc.; the walkway was wide enough etc. During the construction phase foremen were constantly making trips to the model and taking notes back to their men. Plastics models cost a ton of money and were priceless during construction but worthless after.

    Models were replaced by 3D CAD where each discipline was given layers of the physical project. Only one master drawing could be saved and when one tried to draw a pipe through a duct etc. a warning went up and the "interference" had to be resolved.

    We had a short meeting every day during construction and any arguments between contractors had to be resolved. If it persisted the project manager stepped in and made a decision. Many belligerent foreman or superintendants would never be seen again.

    Most million man-hour projects came in under budget, ahead of schedule and accident free. We had repeat projects, worked with the same people and exchanged christmas cards, long after a job was done.

    That is what you described by your smart GC.

    Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com

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