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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    nova scotia, canada
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    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    here we go........ anyone else remember blueridge parkway
    fire up the saw and make some dust

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
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    5,844

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestor View Post
    Jack: You said:

    Haven't you noticed the statement:

    PS: You don't need to know the rest...
    in many of my posts. That's to separate the answer from the additional information the poster might want to know. No one needs to read my posts, and certainly no one needs to read what I write AFTER I tell them they don't need to know it.

    So if the poster doesn't need to know the rest, why post the superfluous information?


    You can fake knowledge, but you can't fake understanding.

    Most often the stuff that follows the "PS: You don't need to know the rest..." in my posts explains WHY things are the way they are in layman's terms so that the poster understands why he's gotten the answer he did.


    Lemme address your statement that I can't explain things in layman's terms: In the case of the fridge compressor motor, the way one would explain the phase difference in the currents through each winding is by talking about the reactance of a coil and that of a capacitor. This is true but does not answer the OP's question.

    Inductors have resistance and positive reactance giving them an impedance vector that goes up and to the right. Capacitors have resistance and a negative reactance that gives them an impedance vector that goes down and to the right. If you add the capacitance impedance vector to the impedance vector for the start winding, you end up with a resultant vector that goes in a totally different direction than the impedance vector for the run winding. The angle between that resultant vector (for the capacitor and start winding) and the vector for the run winding is the phase difference between the current sine waves in each winding. Since the magnetic field produced by each winding is created by the current through it, not the voltage across is, the magnetic fields are also out of phase by that same angle.This is true but is not a description explaining the phase difference in the currents through each winding, it is a description of a mathematical model of what happens but doesn't explain how or why it happens and expects a reader to be looking at the graph and the vector labels.
    .

    Now, did you understand that? Yes I did, but only because I have seen the vector graph to which you are referring. I'm willing to bet most people reading this didn't follow that. If I had explained it that way in my post, it would have been of absolutely no benefit to Rfplcp, the original poster. Nor would most of the information you provided. But, he probably understands how a capacitor is made, and it makes horse sense based on that understanding that the current flow out of it is gonna be greatest when the rate of voltage change is highest. Since that occurs when the voltage is zero, Rfplcp realizes there HAS TO BE a phase shift in the current sine wave. That's cuz before, the voltage and current sine waves were in lock step, and now the current is at a maximum when the voltage sine wave is at zero. If Rfplcp knew and realized all this he would not have had to post his question in the first place.

    In my view, this is a better way to explain to lay people why that phase shift occurs, CUZ THEY'RE NOT GONNA GRASP A WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF A GRAPH OF IMPEDANCE VECTORS.

    I actually thought my way of explaining that phase shift in layman's terms was very good, and I expect you'd agree.
    No I do not agree. Most people do not know how a capitor or an inductor works, or the effect of capacitance or inductive reactance. You also made the statement "The result is that the current sine wave going into the start winding occurs 90 degrees behind the current sine wave going into the run winding " a capacitor causes the current to lead and an inductor cause the current to lag .

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    7,243

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    Nestor, I agree with the others, while you do answer questions and can have some good periphery information, the sensory overload from the length of your posts is overwhelming. I remember giving you a good natured hard time about it when you first arrived and have since completely stopped reading any posts by you because of them being so verbose.

    When someone asks if it's raining, a simple yes or no will suffice, there is no need to go into a dissertation on meteorological phenomena that causes rain. Now, if the conversation turns to the technical, have at it, but by and large all that most folks visiting these forums needs is a quick and easy answer to their problem.

    Again, I'm not hacking on you, just trying to tell you that you've lost a large part of your audience with your verbose delivery.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    208

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    "You also made the statement "The result is that the current sine wave going into the start winding occurs 90 degrees behind the current sine wave going into the run winding " a capacitor causes the current to lead and an inductor cause the current to lag.

    Yes, I know. ELI the ICE man. Forgot about him when I typed that post.

    A. Spruce:

    You're completely missing the most important point.

    You see, I don't write my posts for you or for or JLMcDaniel or any of the more experienced guys in here. I'm here to help, but I'm certainly not here to help you guys. I write my posts for the people that are asking the questions. Like in this tread where the poster sees his fridge is working fine with a temporary capacitor in place, and still wonders if he needs a new compressor. (?)

    Ya see, if it were the people asking the questions that were complaining that they were having a hard time digesting the information because my posts were too long, that would carry more weight with me. But, truth is, I seem to be getting fairly good feedback from those people. What the senior people in here think about my posts matters much less than what the newbies think of them. That's really what this site is supposed to be all about.

    The other thing you guys should know is that I took typing as an elective in high school, and have been a touch typist ever since. I type well over 50 wpm, so when I type, I just think about what I want to say, and my spine does all the rest. It comes out of my fingertips almost without any concious effort on my part. That's probably the single biggest reason you find my posts long. If I was a hunt and peck typist, I wouldn't have time to write all I want to say.
    Last edited by Nestor; 08-02-2011 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    7,243

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestor View Post
    A. Spruce:

    You're completely missing the most important point.

    You see, I don't write my posts for you or for or JLMcDaniel or any of the more experienced guys in here. I'm here to help, but I'm certainly not here to help you guys. I write my posts for the people that are asking the questions.
    No, YOU are missing the point.

    I'm well aware you're not writing responses for the other regulars here. What you're missing is that a good portion of the people you're endeavoring to help won't even read your posts because of their great length. I guarantee if I were on the receiving end of one of your posts, my eyes would roll into the back of my head and I'd pass out before I ever made it to the end.

    As I said earlier, when someone asks if it's raining, a simple yes or no will suffice, there is no need to go into a dissertation on meteorological phenomena. Likewise when someone asks about a problem with their fridge, they don't care HOW it works, they just want to know how to MAKE it work.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    Geeeez guys,
    Just want to thank you for the input.
    Sorry to have created all the fun comments.
    Bottom line is that I now clearly understand that I need a new Tech and a new repair company. I intend to go back to the company and give them the quotes from your responses.
    Again, thanks to all of you.
    rfplcp

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    nova scotia, canada
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    1,522

    Default Re: Refrigerator capacitor/compressor

    now wheres the moderator options button.... ok found it......
    fire up the saw and make some dust

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