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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    SoCal
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    6,310

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    canuk,

    Yes, AFCIs are required for new construction only. For NOW.

    Yes, older construction doesn't have to be brought up to code. For NOW.

    As we've seen in the past, in time, temporary laws or partials laws tend to become the going law.

    But if a homeowner decides to upgrade his entire house now, and some homeowners are doing just that, he does increase the value of his home, or at least makes it more attractive if it's for sale. It's optional, for NOW.

    New codes are put in place as a result of disasters. In many home and business fires, they traced the causes to the electrical system. Therefore they placed this new requirement.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by dj1 View Post
    WitchDoctor,

    "a few hundred dollars worth of circuit breakers is not to increase the value of a home..."

    Lets say that there are two identical homes on the market, home A has all brand new AFCIs and home B doesn't. A buyer comes along, and his broker mentions this fact to him, plus stresses that it's the new code, plus it gives home A more protection, plus someday it may be more expensive to insure a home without it. 99 out of 100 buyers will purchase home A.

    Isn't that more value? Ask your realtor, she's smart, she'll tell you.

    In today's "buyer's market" sellers are looking for an edge over their competition everywhere they can.
    Two identical homes , all things being equal ? Price , ammenities , EVERYTHING ? Sure , I'll concede that . But if his broker IS smart , it will become a negotiating point anyway and who knows what the end result will be .

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    As I stated if there was no problem with the existing breakers, I would do nothing.

    If they needed to be replaced I would replace them with GFCI and AFCI breakers, as would be required by Code. Just as any good electrician would replace a standard receptacle with a tamper resistant one.

    If a prospective buyer hires an inspector to evaluate the home, he/she will note that it is an older home but has had an electrical upgrade. Or, while the wife is checking out the kitchen the husband and father-in-law is looking at the garage crawl space and power panel and are much more likely to vote yes.

    I'm also a realtor and my wife is a broker and have seen it increase or at least hold the selling price firm, many times.

    IMO, a few bucks spent on switches,receptacles and covers by a DIY pays dividends.

    Good Luck from Wilsonville, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,774

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    Just my 2, but most home buyers don't know what GFCIs and AFCIs are and couldn't tell if they are installed with up to code wiring or in a house with K&T wiring. While termite inspections and septic tank inspections are generally required few will require an electrical inspection.

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwet
    Posts
    1,565

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Just my 2, but most home buyers don't know what GFCIs and AFCIs are and couldn't tell if they are installed with up to code wiring or in a house with K&T wiring. While termite inspections and septic tank inspections are generally required few will require an electrical inspection.

    Jack
    Termite and septic tank inspections may be performed by specia1ists, but the electrical wiring is usually handled in the inspection by the general home inspector.

    The home inspector is going to note anything that is a definite hazard: missing electrical plates, wiring installed in an obviously safe manner, the presence of old electrical devices, etc. They should note the lack of GFCI in areas where they are required (within 6' of a sink, etc.). At this point, however, I see it as unlikely that the inspector will make a note of the lack of AFCI breakers in an otherwise well-installed electrical panel. Some will, but probably most won't.

    Most people that live in houses have become educated on GFCI protection (especially since hair dryers and curling irons all come with GFCI built in to the plug), but I think that few know of and understand the need for AFCI protection.

    At some point in the future, as buyers, lenders, and insurers become aware of the issues and begin to request it, inspectors will note the presence or lack of AFCI protection. Like any service provider, the services of a home inspector are determined by the marketplace.
    The "Senior Member" designation under my name doesn't mean I know a lot, it just means I talk a lot.I've been a DIYer since I was 12 (thanks, Dad!). I have read several books on various home improvement topics. I do not have any current code books I can refer to. I was an apprentice plumber for two years.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    Not down playing the validty of those specialty breakers -- but --
    A new roof , a deck , newly remodeled bathroom or kitchen , etc., etc., etc. add value to a home.
    To me things like those are more of a concern and can be deal breakers ( excuse the pun ) whereas AFI breakers add how much value in the grand scheme of things -- $200 ?
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    2,917

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    I've had this discussion with realtors too many times.

    In my fair city, a well plumbed house, or great electrical, or new windows don't raise the value of a house one penny.

    Sad but true.

    Granted this is to the general public. There are the few (very few) who appreciate a well built house over a 'pretty' one.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRemodeler View Post
    I've had this discussion with realtors too many times.

    In my fair city, a well plumbed house, or great electrical, or new windows don't raise the value of a house one penny.

    Sad but true.

    Granted this is to the general public. There are the few (very few) who appreciate a well built house over a 'pretty' one.
    You got that right ---unfortunately eye candy takes takes the stage front and center when many folks are looking to buy a house.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SoCal
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    6,310

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    How true...

    A smart buyer goes for location, not beauty. Goes for a lower price, not beauty. Has the house thoroughly checked by a good inspector and begotiate the price accordingly. Secures the best financing he can find. Etc.

    However not every buyer out there is a smart buyer...

    I love how the discussion went from breakers to real estate in general.
    Last edited by dj1; 05-18-2011 at 10:57 AM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: Useful Life of breaker

    There is a lot of truth to what some are saying about "eye candy", "curb appeal" etc. the buyers who buy "cute" or don't recognize quality really need a mentor who does and is in their corner, like a qualified home inspector or friend.

    I was representing the buyer in a sale and asked the listing agent if the ice maker in the refrigerator worked, since it didn't any ice in the bin. She was a broker with 30 years experience and her answer was straight out of the handbook, "I don't know if that is an ice maker". Which is why the owner is not allowed in the house when being shown.

    Good Luck from Wilsonville, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician

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