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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    728

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    True, but IMO leave the secondary mid-tap grounded at the pole and run this neutral to the neutral bus in the SE panel. But, feed the home/facility with an additional green wire (from pole ground rod) and tie to the enclosure ground bar. Continue to connect the ground rod(s)/slab/water & gas pipes to the ground bar.
    Remove the main bonding jumper in the SE panel.
    Again, the utility should remove their jumper from the primary neutral to the secondary neutral and feed the user with 4 wires not 3. All of their towers should also be feed with a ground wire and better ground rods.

    This information is advocated by Mr. Donald W. Zipse, PE in his papers "Dangers of Stray Voltage and Current" and "Equipotential Planes, A Figment of the Imagination IEEE Paper No. ICPS-06)", which may be downloaded from the web, free of charge and are excellent reading.

    Good Luck from Wilsonville, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Semi-Retired Electric View Post
    All of their towers should also be feed with a ground wire and better ground rods.
    What do you mean by this ?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,826

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Grounding is for lightening protection. It was mandated by the power companies to protect there equipment. In connecting the secondary to ground it provides a danger for the consumer that must be compensated for through multiple code requirements such as double insulated equipment and a ground lead to receptacles. If the secondary was not grounded you would not get shocked unless you touch two of the leads.

    Single point grounding has been preached for a long time, again for lightening protection. However, the cost of mandating this is not offset by the savings from damage.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    728

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Jack/W.Doctor, it's true this has been kicked around for a long time and the utility companies usually win because it takes a million dollar lawsuit to break even. Such was the case where a farmer was awarded $1.2 million for stray ground current on his dairy farm (Hoffman v. Wisconsin Electric Power Co. Wi 64 Docket # 00-2703, Jun 25,2003)

    This farmer was loosing a bunch of money because his dairy herd production was affected due to WEPCO's multi-grounded electrical system.

    Utility companies defend their practice to return most of their primary neutral current thru the earth and will only install better grounding (lightning protection) or primary neutral wiring if they see a monetary gain.

    Meanwhile, as users, we ground and bond to try to avoid a tingle/shock when touching a water pipe in bare feet. The NEC is doing all it can do but has no control over the utilities.

    W. Doctor: Wisconcin is now the strictest state in power distribution and requires every pole be grounded and the primary neutral on every transformer be grounded to earth.

    Ontario, Canada has started installing two wire neutrals on their primary distribution systems in an effort to get the unbalanced return current out of the ground and back on the wires.

    Good Luck from Wilsonville, Alabama
    Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,826

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    The Wisconsin suite was won because the utility had failed to properly install a single wire earth return transmission system (SWER). It is invalid using it as a blanket endorsement to justify changes in all transmission systems. In the U.S. solid wire returns are mandated unless a special exemption is granted. I live in a rural area but even here at the end of the line we have solid wire return.

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    728

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Jack I pulled this from Wiki:

    Single-wire earth returnFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
    Single wire earth return (SWER) or single wire ground return is a single-wire transmission line for supplying single-phase electrical power from an electrical grid to remote areas at low cost. Its distinguishing feature is that the earth (or sometimes a body of water) is used as the return path for the current, to avoid the need for a second wire (or neutral wire) to act as a return path. It is principally used for rural electrification, but also finds use for larger isolated loads such as water pumps, and light rail. Single wire earth return is also used for HVDC over submarine power cables.

    It appears SWER is not always used even if mandated by the National Electrical Safety Code (1977) The NESC Rule 92D states: "Ground connection points shall be so arranged that under normal circumstances there will be no objectionable flow of current over the grounding conductor." Yet, everyone agrees it can typically be up to 70% of the unbalanced neutral current back to the utility.

    I'm glad you don't have ground current problems in your area, I've read the problems would show up between the last user and the utility, since they are cumulative.

    Maurice

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    I have never seen single wire distribution . NEVER . I have heard of it , but it is NOT being built by any of the utilities or Co-ops in this state . At least not for the last 30 some odd years that I know of .

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
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    4,045

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    SWER distribution here in the residential part of our city.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Columbiana, Alabama
    Posts
    728

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Sam, you say you have SWER. Are you in Canada? Do you see any earth current problems, especially on dairy farms?

    Maurice

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Meter base problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Semi-Retired Electric View Post
    Sam, you say you have SWER. Are you in Canada? Do you see any earth current problems, especially on dairy farms?

    Maurice
    Yep --- in Canada.
    We don't have any dairy farms in the city
    Really no problems with any earth currents and far as I know no complaints from farmers with livestock.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

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