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  1. #171
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Quote Originally Posted by waltdeckhouse View Post
    GH or Spruce,

    I have a question for you. I am making a laminated arch from african mahogony. Dimensions: ~1" thick (lamination direction) ~2.25" wide (normal to lamination...this is the width of the strips)...~36" long. I am using a press made out of MDF to hold the pieces during glue up. My question is...how do you clean up the side edges of the lamination after the glue has dried? Obviously, scraping the glue off would be step #1. Should I take it over to the jointer after that? (seems dangerous to me) And how do I handle the second edge? I tried putting a lamination through a thickness planer once and the lamination exploded. Should I put it through the tablesaw and kind of rock the arch through the gap between the blade and the fence?

    -Walt
    You can likely count on some "toe-in" developing in the first week or so after you remove the lams from the form. IOW, the arch will become a bit tighter at the tips than it is in the form. Will likely have some spring-back (a bit bigger) when initally removed, but as time passes that spring-back will become a bit of toe-in instead.

    Usually use Titebond for these lams and I ALWAYS stay with the glue-up until the squeeze-out becomes like bubblegum consistency...at which point the vast majority of that excess is easily removed with a sharp chisel or paint sc****r. This saves big time on labor and on jointer blades, etc.

    "Over-width" the lams for the arch by a minimum of 3/8". 1/2" would be safer. Keep them lined up/flushed up as nicely as possible during glue-up nonetheless. Then...depending upon the size of the arch and the width of your jointer bed....either joint one edge on the machine....or handplane that first edge to dead flat...or use a combo of both methods.

    Now is where we come to the more difficult part which is of course....getting the other edge cut to width and parallel. Disclaimer ....I'm not suggesting that you do this, but is how I usually do it ..IF the piece is of a size that is negotiable in this manner -

    Clamp/rig a long and tall-ish piece of dead-flat ply or MDF (or whatever) to the fence of the tablesaw so as to act as both a guide and support for the arch as its fed thru the tablesaw. IOW, make a big freakin' fence that is square to the tablesaw surface. I then keep the jointed edge of the arch pushed tightly against this fence as it is fed in "rocking fashion"...thru the blade. By far....the best and safest way (frequently only way) to do this is with an assistant with steady hands to help feed and keep the arch pushed up against the elevated fence. The blade of the saw is elevated ONLY so far as to allow the teeth (and maybe 1/2 of the gullets) protrude thru the wood. Steady feed-rate and steady hands are of the utmost importance as you can imagine. This is no place for someone who is frightened of the manuver or unfamiliar with using tablesaws. One little flinch at the wrong moment and disaster can/will result. I've personally never had a bad outcome doing this...but I'm sure it would be easy enough to achieve. Make no mistake...it is somewhat dangerous. Try a few/numerous practice runs holding the piece against the fence set-up to get a feel for things before you try the real deal.....IF you decide to try it. Again....I'm NOT recommending it...just relating how I do it. Lead and trailing ends are the most dangerous. Middle isn't too difficult to control as a rule.(Yes, I still have all ten....and thanks for asking. ) No beer beforehand. Save that for later.

    Router with sled (as already suggested) would be another way....and frankly.........would be much safer.

    Don't recall ever trying to feed one (an arch) thru either an abrasive planer or a surfacer.

    (PS- When I set this fence up....I make dang sure that the cutting only takes place at the lead edge of the tablesaw blade. IOW, the fence is not dead parallael to the blade. That bit (1/32"+) of clearance at the back edge of the blade is added insurance against potential binding and kick-back. So far, so good.)
    Last edited by goldhiller; 10-09-2008 at 11:13 PM.

  2. #172
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Quote Originally Posted by ****hiller View Post
    No beer beforehand. Save that for later.
    I'm thinking that when Walt is done he's gonna need more than one adult beverage of choice to calm the nerves!

    I really do wish I could remember exactly how my furniture maker employer did all this stuff. All I can tell you for sure is that I was amazed at the tools in his home shop (the surface sander was a custom made jobby before surface sanders really existed ).

    Back to the router sled idea for a moment. A few destaco clamps forcing the arch against stop blocks would be an excellent way to hold the piece while sliding the router back and forth across it, otherwise you'd have to clamp it to the table within 6" of the router and move your clamps around as you go.

    I think that it's an important note to say that you should only use the method that you are most comfortable with. There's no need to get to up close and personal with a saw blade or router bit or planer or whatever implement of destruction you choose. Stay safe and sane and you'll have all your fingers and body parts intact when you complete this project.
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  3. #173
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    Sep 2007
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Spruce and GH,

    Thanks for the tips. I won't get to this point until next week. This weekend will probably be limited to gluing up the lams..I need to make 12 of them.

    So far, this table looks pretty good. I am still messing around with the bottom edge of the table top (the top is 1.25 thick, 60" round). I am trying to put a really shallow chamfer on the bottom edge so the exposed edge thickness is about 3/8". I have been using a panel raising bit (vertical orientation) and that gets me close...but there is still a ring of material that is left behind. I will send some pics shortly.

    Once i get these archs done I have to cut some tenons on the ends. I have worked out a process...but am not really sure it is going to work. I will send a more detailed list of the steps that I am using so you guys can tell me I am crazy and wasting all my time :0) This arch is definitely the toughest part of the whole thing. I attached a picture of what I am shooting for
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  4. #174
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Those arches don't look too bad, you should be able to run them through the joiner first, then the planer with little to no trouble. When you get to the planer, stack several of them together and run them with a sacrificial board on either side to keep the planer cutters level. It would help if you had a second set of hands for this, but it's not entirely impossible to do by yourself. Tip on the sacrificial boards, make sure they're 3" or longer past both ends of arched pieces. This will prevent sniping and ease entry/exit of the material into the planer.
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  5. #175
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Walt,

    If you try the router for this...you should be able to just fasten/screw two pieces of stock to the baseplate and then slide the router over the arch to "uniform" the second edge....or...fasten the router to a tabletop/bench thru those pieces of stock (bit pointing down, of course) and slide the arch under the rotating bit to achieve the same thing. Take appropriate little bites each pass.

    Don't know if you made a two piece bending form or are using only the male form and are then using a length of spring steel to cinch the lams to that male form....or perhaps a gob of clamps. If a two piece form, you can always take the female form piece and position that against the tablesaw fence at the appropriate distance... and then crank the blade up thru it. This gives you a matching-curve cradle to help slide/guide the arch thru the blade and is very helpful. No guts, no glory......and no beer.

    If you haven't bent these pieces yet....select your stock carefully....and dry clamp first. Any potential failures in either the compression or tension side should reveal themselves then. Better to find out before everything is slathered with glue and you're in a panic trying to cut a replacement lam before the glue sets up on the remaining pieces. I seriously doubt you'll have any failures if your stock is of decent quality/grain configuration/orientation... because that curve is quite gentle. Good wood-bending starter project. Nice style, too.

    PS- You've come a LONG way from building simple kitchen cabs. Hats off to ya, Walt.

    Another way to do this is to use a CNC router. Start saving your nickels and dimes.
    Last edited by goldhiller; 10-11-2008 at 12:26 AM.

  6. #176
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    I really do wish I could remember exactly how my furniture maker employer did all this stuff. All I can tell you for sure is that I was amazed at the tools in his home shop (the surface sander was a custom made jobby before surface sanders really existed ).
    Yup. First stroke-sander I ever had was one I built from scratch....back in the day. Worked great, too. Sold it eventually and bought an even bigger one. Come to think of it...we built our first horizontal boring machine from scratch too. Ah, to be young again. Good times for sure.

    PS- Got any idea why some of the "new posts" don't show up for me when I ask for them? I decided to check this thread cause I had a hunch. Sure enough, there were new posts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I wonder how many I've actually missed relying simply on "new posts".
    Last edited by goldhiller; 10-11-2008 at 12:41 AM.

  7. #177
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Quote Originally Posted by ****hiller View Post
    Yup. First stroke-sander I ever had was one I built from scratch....back in the day. Worked great, too. Sold it eventually and bought an even bigger one. Come to think of it...we built our first horizontal boring machine from scratch too. Ah, to be young again. Good times for sure.
    This one had a fairly wide bed and used a slow speed to pull the stock through the machine, then there was a 6x30 belt sander mounted vertically that did the work. And now that you mentioned it, he also had a scratch built inline boring machine as well. He was a big reason that I developed a love of woodworking as a young'n.

    Quote Originally Posted by ****hiller View Post
    PS- Got any idea why some of the "new posts" don't show up for me when I ask for them? I decided to check this thread cause I had a hunch. Sure enough, there were new posts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I wonder how many I've actually missed relying simply on "new posts".
    Yeah, I think I miss a whole lot of stuff too. I think that it's partly because they're always doing something to the site, and partly that this forum software isn't the greatest in the world. Speaking of checking things, you've got mail.
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  8. #178
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Walt,

    A notion concerning your buried tank - I suspect it would take some time, but....if you have concerns (and at that age I likely would too)...you could always do a pressure check to determine if there are leaks at the present.

    Would require isolating the tank and then pressurizing it to say...25-30psi...to see if it holds or leaks down over time. Not a ten minute job, but less work than digging it up.

  9. #179
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    Sep 2007
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    178

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Regarding the underground oil tank...I was thinking of calling our furnace service guy and ask his opinion. 35 years underground for steel seems like a long time to me. I am not sure what to do...but if I do have to replace it I want to do it now before the walks, etc go in.

    Regarding the laminated arc....I was thinking of using the GH method....but with the band saw. That seems a lot safer to me. I do not have access to a large platform sander so my resources are limited there. I am in the process of making the male/female lamination press out of MDF. I plan to make the strips wider than the press....so I can clamp the strips while the glue dries. I think that will help keep the arc straight and the strips in line with each other.

    When slicing the strips from 4/4 stock....I assume I need to clean up the reference surface on the planer after making a resaw cut? And then plane the strips to get both sides of the strips clean/flat? Should I put a sled on the planer bed to help the thin strips (~.125" thick) get through the planer?
    I have never planed anything that thin before.

    -Walt

  10. #180
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    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    I have successfully planed down to abut 1/8" with my 15" Jet cabinet planer. A bed would probably be safer in that it will support the full length of the material, whereas the planer bed itself is broken up with rollers where the material can flex and cause uneven planing.

    When my cabinet maker employer did his glue ups, he bought sheets of veneer because it's already been prep'd to a specified thickness, then he ripped strips on the tablesaw, and did the glue ups. You do want the form and the pieces to be a bit longer than finished dimension so that you mill the tips to the exact length and dimension you need. No matter how hard you try, you'll never get a perfect length or width lamination, so don't even try, give yourself an extra inch or so at each side of your press and let excess material hang another inch or so beyond the press.

    When you start your clamping of the press, get all the material into it, then lightly set a clamp in the middle. Tap the laminations lightly with a block and dead blow hammer to set them all as evenly as possible, then tightening the clamp in the center and work towards the ends
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