+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 28 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 271
  1. #141
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    And now... some more thoughts.

    If all of those deck joists are actually cantilevered from the house structure...you might best give the whole deal some serious thought. If one or more of those is now showing serious degradation, the others aren't likely far behind.

    We ran into a similar situation at a local apartment complex some years back. Not good. All the little decks were sitting on cantilevered joists. Untreated joists at that. Duh. Brick exterior. We ended up having to remove all the flooring from every deck and then making up copper caps for the joists. Applied ice and water shield to those exposed upper edges first, then applied the U-shaped narrow metal caps, then reattached all the decking. This keeps the water from being trapped between the decking and the joist... and sheds the bulk of the water away from the sides of the joists also. (metal necessary for protecting the I&W from UV too)

    Yes, the decking/flooring will still degrade and require replacement at some point...but at least the cantilevered joists are protected.

    Everything is fine yet today, but without that timely intervention....$$$$$$!!!!!
    Last edited by goldhiller; 07-20-2008 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Spruce and GH,

    Thanks for all the input. You have given me much to contemplate.

    I was thinking of just staining and sealing the deck...but now I have to consider pulling up the deck boards and capping off the joists. DW will not like that one. But it does make sense. GH...I am not quite following your description of the caps for the joists. Do you know of a picture I could look at? so far it is only one joist that is really bad...and it sounds like I need to cut out the bad and start splicing. I was leaning that way....but now you both confirm my suspicions. I just wanted to make sure I was going down the right path.

    I decided to prime and paint the adirondack and PT chairs I have. I already power washed them and did some patch work to get them to stay together. Do you think I should put some type of top coat on top of the paint? What would I use for that? the paint I chose is water based.

    The question about the 1.25" thick wood is in ref. to an indoor dining table I am working on. Because of the thickness I thought maybe i should relieve the inner portion so the edges would be tight at glue up. Sort like the relief work one does when hand cutting a dovetail. I was planning on using biscuits to help line things up.

    On the deck patch....would cutting out a patch and then tracing that onto the deck work? Then use a router and chisels to get the matching hole to size up. As it is just a backyard deck, I thought maybe that would be good enough. I don't currently have bushings that are large enough (1.25" diameter)

    BTW...I saw a show on PBS this weekend (done by Woodsmith) where a guy runs a school teaching the methods used in 1875 for wood working. Claims the apprenticeship lasts 7 years. I wonder how many students a school like that can draw. Seeing as you could get a bachelor and masters degree done in the same amount of time. Makes me curious about the economics of trade schools like this.

    -Walt

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Hey GH,

    Could you post the photo you have on village directly to the thread. That site requires a registration, login, yada yada.

    So for the last half of a day I have been thinking "Should I trear up those deck boards?" Gotta admit...sounds like a lot of work. When I looked closely at the seam between the deck boards and the joist there appears to be some kind of adhesive or something. Could the original build have used some tar or something similar to protect the union between joist and deck? If so, would that have provided enough protection to the joists? I don't see other joist with the same problem that bad one has. THe hole is near the tail end of the board...and a bird or something has helped enlarge the hole. It is a mess...not much wood left there at all. I am still not sure what material I should splice into that joist.

    I think I am going to only replace the bad portions of the railing. I just cannot fathom another big project...esp. when the front yard is all torn up. DW and I have dreams of someday redoing the railing into something better. But I think that one will have to wait.

    If I decide to pull up the deck boards, I figured I may as well put the boards through the planer to clean them up. Do you think I could get away with only the ice and water shield? THe deck does not really get direct sunlight. I cannot think where I would get the caps to cover the joist...unless I made them myself. I guess If I used thin aluminum I could just attach it and then bend it down once the board was in place. Maybe I should contact a guy who does seamless gutters??? Dont those guys carry material and a large hand brake around with them?

    OH yeah...forgot to mention the deck boards were put down using ricg shank nails. The fun never stops

    -W

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    7,157

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Quote Originally Posted by waltdeckhouse View Post
    Could the original build have used some tar or something similar to protect the union between joist and deck? If so, would that have provided enough protection to the joists? I don't see other joist with the same problem that bad one has.
    Possibly. Have you chipped a piece of that black gunk off and played with it yet? It should be pretty obvious if it's a tar like substance or black moss/mold, particularly if you dissolve it in a touch of paint thinner. Tar will dissolve completely, mold will just break up if it does anything at all. And getting custom caps made wouldn't be difficult. Any HVAC shop can bend the sheet metal, you just tell them the dimensions you need and they'll cut and bend it for you, even weld two lengths together if need be. If you go the custom route, I would also suggest that a drip edge be bent onto the "ears" to direct any water off of the joists.

    Quote Originally Posted by waltdeckhouse View Post
    If I decide to pull up the deck boards, I figured I may as well put the boards through the planer to clean them up
    NO!! Don't use your planer, all you'll succeed in doing is destroying the knives, particularly if you miss removing one of those nails. If you had a thickness sander, that would be a different story. Tell you what, you buy the sander then I can borrow it to do the same thing to my deck. You will deliver to the west coast, right?

    About those nails. If you smack the board from underneath to lift it slightly, you can slip a sawzall between the beam and the plank and cut the nails. Once you've got the plank free, flip it over and drive the nails out with a punch and hammer. Use care and caution, however, because those nail heads are going to want to tear their way back out.
    Last edited by A. Spruce; 07-21-2008 at 09:24 PM.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Well sir...it's impossible to say from here just what is and isn't really necessary/advisable as concerns tending to those deck joists/beams. Maybe you really only have that one that's a problem.

    And believe me ...I fully understand that totally overwhelmed feeling/schedule. The last thing I also need is yet another major project. You're the guy who's there on site so it's obviously your call on the condition of things.

    The joist cap pic is admittedly crude... but suffices, I think. Can't use aluminum or cheapy galvy metal if in contact with ACQ lumber. (So if you replace any of the existing deck boards with ACQ....) Copper, lead or vinyl/plastic works. Modified bitumen membrane (I&W, Vycor window flashing tape and similar) needs protection from UV or it degrades pretty fast.

    The other is a just a pic of a good way to shed water on railing balusters. Fast shed of rainwater & self-aligning at install time.

    Am dang pooped. Will try to add more on the morrow.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	joistcap.jpg 
Views:	77 
Size:	6.5 KB 
ID:	1355   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shedwater.jpg 
Views:	76 
Size:	15.9 KB 
ID:	1356  
    Last edited by goldhiller; 07-21-2008 at 11:51 PM.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    GH,
    Thanks for the pictures. The joist cap is exactly what I was picturing. Great information. I need to contemplate this some. I have access to a 4 foot brake so I could make the caps that way. I heard copper was really expensive right now. Where do you get strip copper anyhow? I know how to get strip stainless...but I would imagine that is even more expensive than copper. With those ring shank nails holding everything down I have to figure out a strategy to get those boards up. Maybe drill off the head of the nail?? I was also thinking that if I do this I should put the deck boards through the planer to clean them up to better accept the new stain & TC. Do you think it is worth the effort to plane them a little bit? BT...should I finish the deck boards before installing? We end up walking under the deck to get in the rear entrance to the house...and it would be nice to look up and not see the underside covered in black mold, etc.

    On the ballisters...I noticed the ballister is a little thinner than the rail boards. By design, no doubt? Is that so the hole in the railing leaves some thickness on the side? I assume those holes are square...do they line up with another hole in the top rail? If so, I guess that requires some careful layout to get things to line up. Do you caulk up the hole once the ballister is in place?

    As always...thanks so much for all the great info!

    -W

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    GH,

    So I been thinking about your ballister design. I concluded either you cut a v-notch on the end of the ballister OR you cut a slot on the railing that is only as deep as the V shape on the top of the lower railing. The more I think about it the more I am convinced it is a slot in the lower railing. Do you have the same feature in the top rail....or is that a long-wise slot (along the length of the railing) to cover up the gap between the ballister and the railing? So many fine details Do you toe nail the ballister to keep it in place?

    BTW...I checked McMaster and 100 inches of stainless strip, .01" thick, 6" wide is $31 whereas copper is $45. Maybe that thickness is too much?


    -W
    Last edited by waltdeckhouse; 07-22-2008 at 03:47 PM. Reason: whoops. forgot something

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Hey did I mention this one joist is kinda bad? see attached or goto

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=DCP_4206.jpg

    In this picture you can see the seam between the deck and the joist.

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=DCP_4207.jpg

    Does this seem like it would suffice to protect the joist? I know, I know..."it depends" or "hard to say from here" Just before I put all that work into this I want to make sure it is REALLY needed.

    This one joist seems to be the only one with a problem.

    BTW...I have been meaning to ask...I am painting some chairs with a latex based paint. Will that get hard enough that people can sit on it? Or do I need to put some kind of hard outer coat on top of the color?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DCP_4206.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	13.2 KB 
ID:	1360   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DCP_4210.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	16.4 KB 
ID:	1361   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DCP_4207.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	11.1 KB 
ID:	1362  

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    Walt,

    There's no mortise pocket for those balusters. The bird's-mouth simply nestles over the top of the rail. If there was a pocket/mortise that they fit into...that would encourage water collection and consequently wood rot. Big no-no.

    Those balusters are actually square. Doesn't look like it in the pic, but they are. Optical illusion.

    Perhaps your head/eyes concluded that there is a mortise for each baluster because I said they are self-aligning. They are self-aligning because of the bird's mouth, but are not self-spacing....if you catch my drift.

    Top end of those balusters simply terminate under a store-bought treated handrail. See pic.

    Sure you can do a dutchman/inlay without router bushings and template. However, I’d suggest you temp-tack/brad some strips of wood to the deck to act as fence for your router base. (Don’t try to freehand those edges again.) I’d probably be inclined to use epoxy as the adhesive for this patch…or at least for around the edges/perimeter. Pre-apply it to both the edges of the mortise and to the edges of the patch. Place patch and carefully wipe up excess epoxy squeeze-out. (a little acetone on a rag) Use some other appropriate adhesive for the large area underneath the patch if you’re short of epoxy or want to use something less expensive; polyurethane glue, Titebond II or III, etc.

    You’ve got a lot of stuff/questions to comment on and I’m a little short on time right time. Will intend to drop back when I can and toss in my two cents FWIW.

    PS- As far as custom metal cap strips goes...*if* you go at that now or in the future sometime...try one of your local HVAC joints. They'll have a brake for bending sheet metal and may have some SS on hand. Copper, maybe. Don't hold your breath. Or... you could see if one of your local builder's/contractor supply houses (or seamless gutter company) has painted bulk aluminum gutter coil. That would be cheaper than copper or SS. The fly in the ointment is that it's aluminum and if you ever place a piece of ACQ against it...trouble will result. However, that same building supply (or a local big-box) may also carry some brand of peel & stick roofing with a smooth face...as opposed to a granular face. Example- Protecto Seal 45. http://www.protectowrap.com/products/roofing.php If they do then they likely also carry the tape-version of the product. (Same product, but pre-cut to 4" wide) Point being, you could use that as a gasket on top of the flat portion of an aluminum cap to prevent problems with ACQ contact. More than one way to skin this cat.

    I would NOT recommend even trying to use the thin aluminum flashing strip-stock that the big-boxes offer for roof valley flashing and the like. Too damn flimsy. Wouldn't bend crisply and neatly. Might as well reach in the kitchen drawer and use some Reynold's Wrap. The gutter coil isn't quite as heavy as the 3' x 10' sheet material we frequently use for stuff like this, but is heavy enough to bend crisply and look nice enough for this application. Not too many people are gonna walk around under there for very long with their necks craned upward to stare at it. If they do...just kick 'em in the shins and that'll put an end to that.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	handrail.jpg 
Views:	61 
Size:	10.8 KB 
ID:	1365  
    Last edited by goldhiller; 07-23-2008 at 11:55 AM.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Build your own cabinets

    GH,

    Thanks for all the great info. Do you nail the ballister in from the top? Those ballisters look pretty beefy..not the standard junk at HD I am sure.

    I will need to find a shop with an 8 foot brake or some rollers to make this cap thing.....that is if I go forward with it. I may still just do the patch work for today and save the bigger project for next spring once I have the front yard sort out.

    Regarding the rotted joist. Were you recommending I splice in some mahogony? I think the original material is fir...but I do not know for certain. It is def. not oak or any kind of hard wood. Would it be OK to splice in another species of wood? I am also a little vague on how best to create the splice. I was thinking a lap joint...about 4 inches long with the height of the entire joist. Should I screw the pieces together as well as glue (or maybe even cross dowel it all together)? I am guessing I should use Gorilla glue or something similar for this. I will have to figure out just how much joist to remove to solve the problem. I am not sure how I am going to cut the joist and the joint with the piece in place...but I guess I will figure out something using handsaws and chisels.

    -W

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •