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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    7

    Default Well pump short cycles

    I bought a house 3 years ago with a 550 ft. deep well. The pump is a 2 hp Goulds pump with a 2 hp Franklin motor that was installed just before we bought the property.
    The air/pressure tank is a 75 gal. non bladder galvanized tank. When the old garage was remodeled into a big room the tank was relocated into the new garage.
    The pump was putting out about 7 to10 gpm, and 2 times a year I would drain the tank and refill the water to the air bleed screw. This fall I added a water line to our barn and pastures, tapping into the waterline in the pump house. I replaced the pvc piping and backflow valves in the pump house and added a cartridge filter. Inside of one of the old pvc joints was almost solid dried pvc glue.
    Now the pump is putting out 15gpm+. The pump is constantly short cycling. I have the pressure switch set to cut in at 26 psi and cut out at 50 psi. The pump will run for 5 seconds and shut off for 10 seconds when you shower, causing a big flocculation in the water pressure.
    Draining and refilling the tank to the bleeder screw no longer makes no difference.
    Will a bladder tank solve the short cycling? And if so, what size.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    The pump is a 2 hp Goulds pump

    Submersible pumps are rated by gallons per minute, not horsepower. (Delivery rate changes with how far the pump has to actually raise/pump the water and the HP of the motor driving the pump.)

    Can we assume a submersible pump?

    When the old garage was remodeled into a big room the tank was relocated into the new garage.

    Does it reach freezing temps in the garage?

    Inside of one of the old pvc joints was almost solid dried pvc glue. Now the pump is putting out 15gpm+.

    IOW, there was evidently so much glue inside the pipe that it acted as a throttling valve.


    Draining and refilling the tank to the bleeder screw no longer makes no difference.

    Not sure what you mean by a "bleeder screw". Are you perhaps referring the air/water volume control unit about midway up on the side of the tank? If so and the drain & refill did the trick before, then it should now also.

    If that air/water volume control was working properly, you shouldn't have to do that. However, these devices frequently get clogged or malfunction in one manner or another and then don't do their job as they should. Can't see in the pic of the tank exactly where your water lines hook into it. Where these lines hook up can have a dramatic effect upon what your actual working volume is inside the tank.

    Where does the supply line from the wellpump connect to the tank? In the top...... perhaps?......or near to the bottom?


    Will a bladder tank solve the short cycling? And if so, what size.

    No. A bladder tank basically just keeps the air separated from the water inside the tank so it doesn't get abosrbed by the water. And *if* your supply line from the wellpump connects to the very top of the tank, you cannot use a bladder tank with that particular system anyway.

    When you drain and "recharge" the tank with air......you should have a decent water to air ratio again. Don't know exactly how you were draining this tank or how the air was getting back into replenish it, but..........if you were draining via a nearby faucet or hydrant rather than a drain valve or similar at the bottom of the tank........it may be that the airhead was being replenished thru that air/water control valve. If the float in it is stuck now (doesn't drop like it should) or its little bleeder hole is full of crud, it can't/won't allow air back in to replenish the tank. IOW, you may be doing nothing but creating a vacuum in there when you drain/run the tank down to low pressure.

    Without knowing more....I'll suggest you first drain the tank and either remove/clean (make sure the float is free and air bleeder hole is open)..... or replace the air/water control valve at that time. Make sure that when you reinstall..... this unit is turned so it is upright or the float can't work properly. See what you get as a result.

    If that does no good, try temporarily removing the filter from the cartridge and see what kind of result you get. A clogged filter or one that is filtering "too tight" can have seemingly strange effects on the pressure switch and how/when it turns the pump on and off.

    Curious.....Why did you add this filter?
    Last edited by goldhiller; 02-04-2009 at 11:08 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,621

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    Along with what ****ie posted, I'm wondering, was it a horizontal tank that you set vertical when you moved it?
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    7

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    The house was built in 1984, The additon and movment of the water tank was done in 1994. The pump was replaced in 2005(see reciept for HP info).The pump is a submersible, 500 feet deep in a pump house away from the house.
    The tank has alwaye been a vertical tank. The waterline is under the slab floor. It tee's betwwen the water/air tank and the faucets in the house. The water inlet to the tank is about 12" from the bottom of the tank. At the bottom there is a drain valve to empty the tank. A little over half way up there is a manual air bleeder screw that is part of the fitting the pressure gauge screws into(there is nothing automatic to bleed out air). The closet in the garage is insulated. The tank has not frozen, nor has any of the lines.
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    Last edited by Tin Bender; 02-05-2009 at 06:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,621

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    After reading your post again I think your modus operandi is flawed.Try empting the tank, open the air valve to drain it completely, close the air valve and turn the water on. It sounds to me like you are filling the tank to high at no pressure and it is becoming almost water logged.
    Jack
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 02-05-2009 at 06:30 PM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    7

    Smile Re: Well pump short cycles

    Thanks Jack
    The pump now runs for 40 seconds and is off for 90 seconds

  7. #7
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    Aug 2007
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    1,131

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    ...................
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    ...........

    Last edited by goldhiller; 02-06-2009 at 11:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,621

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    Although a shut off valve or restrictor is installed after some shallow well above ground pumps to cause back pressure, why on earth in this particular case would you need to cause more back pressure on the submersible pump than a column of water 500 feet high would cause? Common sense should prevail here.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Well pump short cycles

    Today I was able to spend some time to check my well flow. My pressure tank is 120 gallons @ a max of 75 psi, not 75 gallons as I previously stated.
    At the start of running the pump puts out 10 gpm at 32 psig. After 15 minutes of running it still is putting out 10 gpm at 32 psig.
    The pressure switch cut in is 26 psig and cut out is 50 psig. The gauge no longer flutters when the pump shuts off.
    The well kicks on 30 seconds after I opened an outside faucet. The well shuts off 90 seconds after the faucet is shut off.
    I replaced the BACKFLOW preventer coming from the pump with the same model as what was there (the old one had sweat stains from a slow leak). I added a backflow preventer going out to my barn to prevent any possible contaminations from the animals. The blockage in the old line was dried HOT GLUE at a union that was added when the line was cut open to replace the pump.
    The original owner told me that the well was drilled 550 ft. deep, and the pump was set at 500ft.
    The people I bought the house from had to replace the pump. The receipt shows 545 ft. of power cable (which extends 6 ft. into the pump house) and 63 ft. of 1 galv. pipe, so who knows what depth the pump is set at.
    Here is a picture of the bleeder screw. You use a small flat blade screwdriver to screw the bleeder inward. I have no idea if there are any bleeders inside the well casing. As far as I know, the well pump unloads itself to not start under a load.
    I added a sediment filter to remove the periodic rocks in the aerators. With or without a filter installed, the pump short cycled until I drained the tank like Jack suggested.
    The galv. Tank has on floats in it. The pressure switch controls the pump starter.
    As I said last post, we have good water pressure, and no more short cycling.
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