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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Fayette County, Ohio
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    5,825

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    As usual another confusing, misleading, and inaccurate post by the resident know-it-all. Call it what you will any typical outlet circuit is wired from the panel to one receptacle box then on to the next, which is what Jack was saying, and you were very well aware of. To protect that series of outlets the first outlet in that series must be located, then it is wired exactly as Jack suggests.

    There is a very old and very wise adage, if you don't have anything positive to add (or say ) DON'T!
    You should add BRP to your ignore list like I did then you aren't even subject to see her bull, nit picking, misdirection, insults and constantly proving she's posting about things she knows nothing about.

    To help simplify it for the OP I made these diagrams as explanation of the two scenarios I posted. The top is the daisy chained outlets the bottom is with separate drops from a junction box. I did leave the grounds out of the drawing to keep it simplified.

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  2. #12
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    Jan 2008
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    731

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    You should add BRP to your ignore list like I did then you aren't even subject to see her bull, nit picking, misdirection, insults and constantly proving she's posting about things she knows nothing about.

    To help simplify it for the OP I made these diagrams as explanation of the two scenarios I posted. The top is the daisy chained outlets the bottom is with separate drops from a junction box. I did leave the grounds out of the drawing to keep it simplified.

    Jack
    The irony of your continued posts referring to me and whatever I post simply proves you have not placed me on your ignore list and that you do not ignore what is written.

    The silliness of your second diagram also amusing.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    The Great White North
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    4,045

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    The irony of your continued posts referring to me and whatever I post simply proves you have not placed me on your ignore list and that you do not ignore what is written.

    The silliness of your second diagram also amusing.
    Let it go .... Blue Ridge.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
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    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Unfortunately I do see BPR's posts when someone quotes them and the one quoted above displays her lack of any real experience. It is quite common in older houses to find outlets in a room wired to drops from a ceiling box as in the bottom drawing.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    612

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    It is quite common in older houses to find outlets in a room wired to drops from a ceiling box as in the bottom drawing.
    Jack
    I did a slight variation on your second drawing when remodeling our home. I prefer to not have wires running horizontally in insulated walls. For most of the exterior walls I did not want to run wire from outlet to outlet. I ran the supplies from the panel to the attic of our ranch house and had a j-box above each outlet position with a drop running to that outlet. This strategy caused a couple extra GFCI's to be used in the kitchen (although the cathedral ceiling had me looping through the crawlspace).

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
    Posts
    645

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Sorry BPR, but A. Spruce quoted you, to which I responded.
    Then Canuk quoted you to which I responded.
    Again Canuk quoted you to which I am responding here.

    Contrary to what you have can find on Google, 20 amp circuit requirements for kitchens was not always the case.

    Second the drawing shows 4 wire count not eleven so you not only don't have a clue, you can't count.

    Third, the house I own had 6 rooms wired like the lower drawing when I first bought it and a 60 amp service with only 4 circuits. There are still many homes that are wired that way.
    Google that clown!
    Jack
    Four square and a range I believe is what they are called in these parts. And yes, sadly they are still in use as well.
    I have been told by a private adjuster, that when those homes go on the market insurance companies will not write a homeowners policy till the service & load center are brought up to present code practices. For once I can agree with them.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    Sorry BPR, but A. Spruce quoted you, to which I responded.
    Then Canuk quoted you to which I responded.
    Again Canuk quoted you to which I am responding here.

    Contrary to what you have can find on Google, 20 amp circuit requirements for kitchens was not always the case.

    Second the drawing shows 4 wire count not eleven so you not only don't have a clue, you can't count.

    Third, the house I own had 6 rooms wired like the lower drawing when I first bought it and a 60 amp service with only 4 circuits. There are still many homes that are wired that way.
    Google that clown!
    Jack

    Yes you are sorry. No will power, you can't control yourself, you can't ignore, blame your lack of resistance on others quoting a post which compels you to the point you cannot resist??!!! Too funny, like an itch you have to scratch, a scab you cannot resist picking! How pitifully weak, JLMCDANIEL!

    You have 10 physical conductors to the count, all originate or terminate outside your box and none are unbroken unspliced through conductors, none are pigtails (originating and terminating inside the box they don't get counted), plus one fill accomodation for largest clamp, hickey, etc. and if present one for combined ground count as one conductor (five cables the other four don't have to be counted) that's ELEVEN minimum if metal box or a ground. Device in there, add 2 per device. So now you're claiming its 15 awg no problem that's 2 cu. in. per. So obvious you don't know the least bit about 90 percent of what you post about.

    SHOW ME THE BOX that you speak of. DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Speaking for many - yeah, riiiight.

    Amazing that you still don't know the difference between a CONDUCTOR and a CABLE. You still don't know the difference between a WIRE and a CABLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    I'll take offense to that. I have no relation to Chicken Little. I'm sure she will, too.
    Fencepost, and you're just NOW catching on that since you're arrival they've been throwing that Leslie crap at you too?!? Kinda slow aren't you?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Fencepost is right in His definition of series and parallel circuits. All residential wiring is in parallel. Jumping from one receptical to another in the same circuit could be called many things, but they are always connected in parallel.Series connections in residential wirring would cause voltage lose as the connections progress. GFCI recepticals need only be installed where someone could come in (arms lenth) contact with water or a damp location. Any recepticle outside of this distance would not necessarily need a GFCI.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,825

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by montwv View Post
    Fencepost is right in His definition of series and parallel circuits. All residential wiring is in parallel. Jumping from one receptical to another in the same circuit could be called many things, but they are always connected in parallel.Series connections in residential wirring would cause voltage lose as the connections progress. GFCI recepticals need only be installed where someone could come in (arms lenth) contact with water or a damp location. Any recepticle outside of this distance would not necessarily need a GFCI.
    You are of course correct. There is no argument about it being parallel wiring. The argument is from our resident know-it-all who disputes the common use of the term "daisy chain" referring to receptacles wired from one to the next to the next and her disputing that outlets on the same circuit can be supplied by individual power drops from a junction box, in both cases the receptacles are supplied in parallel. In the one case one GCFI in the first position will protect all the receptacles, in the other case for all to be GCFI protected you would have to install multiple GCFI receptacles or a GCFI breaker if there is nothing else on the same circuit like a refrigerator. And her absolute refusal to recognize that all houses are not wired to NEC 2008 standards, and that Google does not have the answer to every thing.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: GFI outlets on same circuit

    Quote Originally Posted by montwv View Post
    Fencepost is right in His definition of series and parallel circuits. All residential wiring is in parallel. Jumping from one receptical to another in the same circuit could be called many things, but they are always connected in parallel.Series connections in residential wirring would cause voltage lose as the connections progress. GFCI recepticals need only be installed where someone could come in (arms lenth) contact with water or a damp location. Any recepticle outside of this distance would not necessarily need a GFCI.
    Nope not right. A simple switch is installed in series. You are confusing Looped circuit paths and Star circuit paths. Both have their issues regarding resistance, impedance and drops. You and JLMCDANIEL are also confusing the mix with pitailing a receptacle yoke versus through wiring (no longer permitted for multi-wire circuits). Your interpretation and summation declarations of there being such minimal limitations for required GFCI protection I also dispute MOST STRONGLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLMCDANIEL View Post
    You are of course correct. There is no argument about it being parallel wiring. The argument is from our resident know-it-all who disputes the common use of the term "daisy chain" referring to receptacles wired from one to the next to the next and her disputing that outlets on the same circuit can be supplied by individual power drops from a junction box, in both cases the receptacles are supplied in parallel. In the one case one GCFI in the first position will protect all the receptacles, in the other case for all to be GCFI protected you would have to install multiple GCFI receptacles or a GCFI breaker if there is nothing else on the same circuit like a refrigerator. And her absolute refusal to recognize that all houses are not wired to NEC 2008 standards, and that Google does not have the answer to every thing.
    Jack
    This party KNOWS how to calculate BOX FILL. And I FIRST addressed LINE and LOAD on my original post on this thread.

    For the record JLM's little second stupid diagram has MORE THAN FOUR wires/conductors, he has TEN diagramed and there would be at LEAST one more counted in the cases as I've already explained, he's the one who cannot count or calculate box fill.

    http://ecmweb.com/nec/electric_box_fill_calculations/
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 01-06-2009 at 02:25 PM.

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