+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,481

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    And once again the topic is reduced to an argument because, God forbid, those of us that have actually done this type of work have an opinion that is contrary to the resident know-it-all.

    A sure sign of misleading and often dangerous information is offered by those who must yell it to sell it.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy_pilgrim View Post
    Hi, all,

    My wife and I just bought our first house. It's a 95 year old Colonial twin that was a total rehab. We just learned yesterday that our soil stack is leaking from the second floor bathroom (the only bathroom in the house) into the basement. There's quite a bit of water after a shower or flushing the toilet.

    The pipe runs from the basement, behind some kitchen counters and wall, up to the second floor bath. We had a bunch of plumbers round today to give some estimates. Most were around $2,000. The lowest one - who happened to be the guys who spent the most time at the house and were the most pleasant to deal with, overall - brought their carpenter out to take a look. They seemed to think the best option is to open the outside wall. They want to remove some of the vinyl siding and what's underneath that to get to the pipe. Pipe replacement is $1,200 and the carpentry/siding work is $600. Does that seem reasonable?

    I was a tiny bit concerned about the outside wall option since one of the other plumbers made a big stink about I shouldn't let anyone do something like that and that it could really mess up my house.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    billy ,

    Since this home was a rehab the plumbing for upstairs bathroom likely had been modified somehow. It's unclear where the leaking is being noticed .... staining of the kitchen ceiling for example. Also the reason for replacing the whole stack is also unclear.

    I agree with ****hiller in that some exploration would be needed to determine where the source of the leak is. There's a good chance this maybe along the horizontal run or where this ties into the vertical stack itself. In which case strategic access holes can be cut open in the kitchen ceiling to determine what and where the problem is.

    If indeed the entire vertical stack that runs in the exterior wall cavity needs to be replaced then you have 2 options as to going about doing this.

    Option 1.....Doing this from the interior would be the most invasive and disruptive since it would mean dismantling a portion of the kitchen. After the replacing of the plumbing stack would require the repairs to the walls , ceiling , likely repainting a good portion( if not all ) of the kitchen..... as previously mentioned.

    Does the quotes from the other plumbers around $2000 include dismantling,reassemble and refinishing the kitchen .... who would do this .... the plumbers?


    Option number 2 .... doing this from the outside would be the least invasive and shouldn't be an issue to the integrity of the structure .... if done properly.
    Considering the one that suggested doing this from the outside brought a carpenter .... realized he's a plumber and not a carpenter which is a plus.
    Also with his estimate you know who is doing what and how much it costs.

    Personally ... I don't see a problem with doing it this way either.

    The comment from the one plumber saying it could mess up your house if done from the outside maybe unwarranted. Since the other guy had brought in a carpenter ......who is hopefully knowledgeable about the construction of your house .......would have a better idea.

    2 cents worth.
    Last edited by canuk; 12-30-2008 at 09:47 AM.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    A 95-year old multi-story home that was just skinned with vinyl. To remove a multi-story soil-stack/vent. somewhere there would be horizontal plates and/or diagonal braces which would limit. May be platforms, don't know. Obviously this connects so plumbing/sewer down below. Getting it out past structural not just removed and replaced sheathing but the structural aspects many plumbers will just cut this OUT instead of using a chain cutter (tough to do if trying to preserve interior wall coverings) most likely. They'd be opening up a vertical opening ground to roof not a good idea.

    Several here will object and take an opposite view just because I posted otherwise first, not because it is wrong, just to be contrary.

    Most likely a home of this vintage the chase that contains the stack is accessible from the interior with far more room than the exterior. Sheathing on the old walls is also usually structural.

    I stand by my recommenation based on the what the original poster said. Apparently more than one on-site plumber quoting the project also was approaching from the interior, it was the odd man out that wanted to go from exterior.Now, maybe a one-story structure half the age of the posters in Florida or California (two of the other posters) not during the rain seasons - maybe; but if you're in a winter zone now, I'd say No on the exterior approach for SURE. When I hear pilgrim I think NE.

    However, I suspect the entire stack might not have to be replaced, in fact the most likely suspect area would be where the closet bend joins the stack and would explain water from either shower or toilet. Obviously with nasty gray and black waterfalls in the walls and basement waiting isn't an option.

    Who would want to maintain toilet waste contaminated inside wall surfaces anyway - it is going to need to be cleaned out, SANATIZED and likely some replacement anyway - preserving the interior wall board doesn't seem THAT IMPORTANT over health and cleanliness; especially behind unknown infiltration under and behind kitchen counters/cabinets and possibly the ceiling above.
    Just because you posted your opinion first doesn't mean it's the only way or that it's even correct.

    Also , when someone submits a post that's different to yours doesn't mean they are being contrary ........ perhaps there are other ways of doing things to accomplish the same result.
    If you were truly experienced in this type of work you would would have an open mind and understand this.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwet
    Posts
    1,361

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Off-topic post here, skip to the next one if you're only interested in fixing houses.

    I've found that there are people in this world who will believe the first thing they hear on a subject (or the most dramatic presentation) and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise. If you had said last February that Barack Obama was a St. Bernard, there are people who would still believe that he is a St. Bernard. (That was a lame attempt at humor. You're supposed to laugh.)

    There are also people who are convinced that their methodology is the ONLY methodology that will work, and any other way of doing it is either inefficient or flawed. When I was an apprentice plumber, my foreman (who was very good at his job) fell into this category. But I believe that what works for one person may not work so well for another.

    Consider the original poster's problem. If this issue were in the home of a drywall installer or plasterer and he were doing it himself, he would most likely open up the wall on the interior because that is where he is most experienced and likely will be the most efficient. On the other hand, if it were the home of a framing carpenter, it would likely be more efficient for him to work from the outside.

    Same situation, but the different experience of the different people merits different approaches, and both are valid.
    The "Senior Member" designation under my name doesn't mean I know a lot, it just means I talk a lot.I've been a DIYer since I was 12 (thanks, Dad!). I have read several books on various home improvement topics. I do not have any current code books I can refer to. I was an apprentice plumber for two years.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy_pilgrim View Post
    Hi, all,

    My wife and I just bought our first house. It's a 95 year old Colonial twin that was a total rehab. We just learned yesterday that our soil stack is leaking from the second floor bathroom (the only bathroom in the house) into the basement. There's quite a bit of water after a shower or flushing the toilet.

    The pipe runs from the basement, behind some kitchen counters and wall, up to the second floor bath. We had a bunch of plumbers round today to give some estimates. Most were around $2,000. The lowest one - who happened to be the guys who spent the most time at the house and were the most pleasant to deal with, overall - brought their carpenter out to take a look. They seemed to think the best option is to open the outside wall. They want to remove some of the vinyl siding and what's underneath that to get to the pipe. Pipe replacement is $1,200 and the carpentry/siding work is $600. Does that seem reasonable?

    I was a tiny bit concerned about the outside wall option since one of the other plumbers made a big stink about I shouldn't let anyone do something like that and that it could really mess up my house.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Poster was quite specific as to the source of the leaks being from the 2nd story bathroom.

    Poster has not responded with the type of stack or plumbing materials for the closet bend.

    Poster has made no indication that any of the "bunch" of plumbers who visited were permitted to pull the toilet to investigate the integrity of the closet bend or connections to the stack from above and/or inside.

    Poster has not indicated the distance from the outside wall for the stack OR the distance from it to the toilet or the toilet's proximity to the outside wall.

    Poster has not indicated his geographic location so UNKNOWN as to more complicated weather issues needing to keep the area open, to clean, dry out, etc.

    Poster HAS indicated an emergent situtation - only toilet in the home and cascading waterfalls down to the basement - which also rather "hints" at balloon construction 95 yrs old with no mention of "evidence" of water anywhere else.

    The entirety of the rest is fully hypothetical and wild guessing. A "bunch" of plumbers visited. Only one suggested an exterior first approach - based upon what investigations or explorations we do NOT know. The Rest of the "bunch" of plumbers did not suggest a first from exterior approach, ONE was concerned such an approach would be detrimental. We know nothing else about Any of the rest of the "bunch" of plumbers suggested first approach. We know NOTHING about the layout of the fixtures, the DWV materials, i.e. vintage, transitions, lead closet bend, copper, cast iron, galv, abs, pvc, or OTHER, nor if prior work was done over the years, repairs, replacements, modifications, etc. We do know, because the OP has told us, that a significant amount of waste water is evidenced in the basement, where the stack is seen, when the toilet or shower is used.

    Since the entirety of the discussion on this string has been without a return by the Original Poster to respond even to the most simple of questions regarding his original post, and the emergent/urgent necessisity of a correction of the problem (ONLY TOILET IN THE HOME - and waste in the walls and to the basement) I SUSPECT HE JUST MAY NEVER RETURN TO THIS STRING, and/or has ALREADY made a decision regarding choice of plumbing contractor!!

    Continuing this discussion absent the Original Poster's participation (and some details) is POINTLESS, especially since so many seem to have missed what detail WAS provided originally. Assumptions, such as "rehab" means "DWV was completely replaced recently with new materials" are absurd.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,558

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Poster was quite specific as to the source of the leaks being from the 2nd story bathroom.

    Poster has not responded with the type of stack or plumbing materials for the closet bend.

    Poster has made no indication that any of the "bunch" of plumbers who visited were permitted to pull the toilet to investigate the integrity of the closet bend or connections to the stack from above and/or inside.

    Poster has not indicated the distance from the outside wall for the stack OR the distance from it to the toilet or the toilet's proximity to the outside wall.

    Poster has not indicated his geographic location so UNKNOWN as to more complicated weather issues needing to keep the area open, to clean, dry out, etc.

    Poster HAS indicated an emergent situtation - only toilet in the home and cascading waterfalls down to the basement - which also rather "hints" at balloon construction 95 yrs old with no mention of "evidence" of water anywhere else.

    The entirety of the rest is fully hypothetical and wild guessing. A "bunch" of plumbers visited. Only one suggested an exterior first approach - based upon what investigations or explorations we do NOT know. The Rest of the "bunch" of plumbers did not suggest a first from exterior approach, ONE was concerned such an approach would be detrimental. We know nothing else about Any of the rest of the "bunch" of plumbers suggested first approach. We know NOTHING about the layout of the fixtures, the DWV materials, i.e. vintage, transitions, lead closet bend, copper, cast iron, galv, abs, pvc, or OTHER, nor if prior work was done over the years, repairs, replacements, modifications, etc. We do know, because the OP has told us, that a significant amount of waste water is evidenced in the basement, where the stack is seen, when the toilet or shower is used.

    Since the entirety of the discussion on this string has been without a return by the Original Poster to respond even to the most simple of questions regarding his original post, and the emergent/urgent necessisity of a correction of the problem (ONLY TOILET IN THE HOME - and waste in the walls and to the basement) I SUSPECT HE JUST MAY NEVER RETURN TO THIS STRING, and/or has ALREADY made a decision regarding choice of plumbing contractor!!

    Continuing this discussion absent the Original Poster's participation (and some details) is POINTLESS, especially since so many seem to have missed what detail WAS provided originally. Assumptions, such as "rehab" means "DWV was completely replaced recently with new materials" are absurd.
    The only one trowing a tantrum on this thread is you, with your inability to recognize that your opinion (Based on what?) is the only one that counts. Your rants with red letters, bolds, underling, and capitals does nothing but point out your insecurity and lack of maturity.

    The OP stated that there was water running down the stack, this may or may not be saturating the walls and framing. That won't be known until and internal inspection is done. The OP said nothing about wall or ceiling staining. It may just be a bad connection that can easily be made without complete replacement of the stack or sanitizing the whole neighborhood. Again this will not be known until an internal inspection is done.

    You seem greatly concerned about the plummer, hiring a carpenter, doing damage cutting into an outside wall and yet ignore what damage could be done by the same plummer tearing out cabinetry (which the Op stated was on this wall), flooring, ceilings and walls.

    Anyone with any common sense would recognize that a complete demolition may not be necessary or cost affective. The location of the leak is not perfectly clear only that it is above connection from the main floor.

    I stand by my opinion, the least amount of damage and disruption would be to go from the outside. The fact that I disagree with your opinion is not due to spite, as you imply, but is based on experience. It may end up only having to open a small inspection window or two to find the cause and make the repair.
    Jack
    Last edited by JLMCDANIEL; 12-30-2008 at 01:41 PM.
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,558

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Oh, and by the way, outside work is done in all kinds of weather. Tradesmen often work on other than 72 degree sunny days.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  8. #18

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Since the entirety of the discussion on this string has been without a return by the Original Poster to respond even to the most simple of questions regarding his original post, and the emergent/urgent necessisity of a correction of the problem (ONLY TOILET IN THE HOME - and waste in the walls and to the basement) I SUSPECT HE JUST MAY NEVER RETURN TO THIS STRING, and/or has ALREADY made a decision regarding choice of plumbing contractor!!
    I was actually just trying to stay out of the Internet slap fight that evolved from my question. Sorry to have caused so much agitation here.

    You are correct that we made our decision. We decided to go through the exterior with a contractor who is a close friend of the family. They were kind enough to drive two hours each way to help us out as first-time homeowners and come back this morning at the break of dawn to get started.

    It looks like were lucky. The break in the stack was right above the subfloor where the pipe enters the basement, hence no significant water damage. They replaced a section of the cast iron with PVC, supporting it up higher. They were also nice and replaced some of the cheaper fernco couplings with the better kind.

    Thanks for everyone's help and advice! I'll be back with lawn questions, I'm sure, when we get ready to tackle that huge project in the spring.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    billy ,
    great stuff ... glad you got it resolved and thanks for the update.

    BTW ... there is no need for you to apologize for the ruckus.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,558

    Default Re: Soil stack woes. Need help and advice.

    Yes, Billy,
    Thanks for getting back to us on this, and I'm glad you didn't have to demolish you kitchen to get it done.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •