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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    94

    Question Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Not sure if this is required but what if a "kitchen" is only 4 ft of counter space no sink. With only 3 plugs and 1 light switch with one fight fixture. Does it still have to have 2 20 amp circuits or can you just have one. It is a hunting cabin with no frig but maybe a microwave. Would it be considered a kitchen and still require 2 circuits being so small? Also would the 2 bed rooms require arc fault breakers and them each having their own circuit and would you need 2 seperate circuits one for light and one for plugs if the rooms are only 8 x 8 ft. Or could you put both the plugs and lights on the same 15 amp circuit? Being there will be 4 plugs, switch and light fixture in the 2 rooms? Just trying to get an idea what is needed for a hunting cabin and have it meet the current NEC Code Requirements?

    Thanks,
    MMeehan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Thanks, I am just looking into this for some friends building a building though it might be concerned a "barn", they have ask me to wire it up to make some side money and they are going to pull permits as a the owner. It is a two story barn shaped building, the upstairs is a loft with a partial opening down to the 1st flr for the stairs. They are looking at a wood stove to heat it. I looked at it to give them ideas and ran it past a friend that does service changes now and then. He suggest the arc fault set up for the sleeping areas just to be close to the new codes. What about tamper resistant plugs being here in Michigan they just adopted the 2008 Code or is that not due to the 2011 Code change? I dont do electrical but have to take the NEC Code Update Class to renew my Low Type License been doing it for about 15 years now never used most of the information but now trying to make a little extra money and they asked me to do some wiring. So just trying to do it right... I know they should use an eletrician but thought I could use the $$. If it is something I don't know enough to do I would pass but these days money is key and they are getting it inspected they just want to get it done sooner and they don't have the time to take it on. So I took it on sorry for all the questions...

    MMeehan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,797

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Definition from the 2008 NEC
    Kitchen An area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking.

    So I would say it is not a kitchen. You would still need to install outlets to meet the minimum 6 Ft. spacing requirements and AFCI or GFCI requirements.

    If it were me, I would have one circuit for overhead lights and at least 2 for outlets. You might consider submitting a wiring plan and getting it approved when applying for the permit
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Thanks, will see what we can do to get the inspetor's input on what will be required.

    Yes we have plugs every 6 ft in the layout and a few extras.

    Thanks for the information.

    MMeehan

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,797

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Thanks Jack, that may be what I was thinking out loud about.... Or maybe not, who the heck knows.....its been one hot Monday....
    Hot is right! Maybe that's why I chose red print?

    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Plan on using the GFCI for the three kitchen plugs if you want to call that room a kitchen, then AFCI for the two rooms that could be used as bedrooms. As well as a room maybe a bathroom in the future, it will have a Broan Ceiling Exhaust Fan / Heater w/ a light. Two switches one for the heater and the other for the Fan/Light and then 1 GFCI PLug for that room. Again future usage just trying to plan ahead.

    Thanks for the HELP!!!

    MMeehan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Not sure if this 6 ft question was directed at me but most lamps and small plug in appliances have a 6 ft cord on them and they don't want extension cords used to extend a cord permanently like many do with older homes the cords break down over time and cause fires but that is just my guess.

    As for the spacing the guys I am doing this for had the boxes tacked up around the first floor and they were for the most part at 6 feet apart a few were close at the corners of the building but just so they could rearrange the rooms furniture and ability to plug in table lamps in different locations depending on the furniture locations.

    On the 2nd floor we added 4 more to get it closer to 6 feet spacing more like 7 but just seem too many along the stairwell outside walls but just to be safe but he doubted he would use them much maybe to charge batteries for something or maybe a laptop computer when not in use.

    But again in case he does somthing more upstairs than an office and bedroom.

    Help that helps. At least that is how I see it being closer to the NEC 6 ft requirement.

    MMeehan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    It has been a rather long time since I did a fan/light/heater. The more I think about it, the Romex needed for such an instillation was 12/3 as the heater needed a dedicated circuit....
    Thanks I will get more info as to what model Broan Heater/ Fan / Light he is planning on using and see what the watts / amp draw is on it and go from there.

    MMeehan

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Ran into an Electrician I know today and he said it would need a 20 breaker and 12-2 Gauge but also recommended at least a 12-3 w/grd to be able to switched them on and off seperately. Might run another 12-2 w/grd to control the heater, the light and the exhaust fan seperately just in case they just need the light or the fan only. I know it will need a 3 gang box but might be the best was to go.

    Thnaks...
    MMeehan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,387

    Default Re: Small Kitchen and 2 Required Circuit Questions?

    Hi 2 small appliance circuits would be better so the loading from the kitchen appliances does not overload even in a small space a microwave or toaster eats up so much juice.

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