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  1. #11
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with your 6' rule that allows outlets to be 12' apart.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    I believe that the common interpretation by most inspectors is "6 feet between" outlets, that is, hold a tape measure on one outlet and reel it out to any 6' diameter where it intersects a wall. Case in point, on one particular project that I was involved, we had two sliding glass doors that were side by side in a wall. We had to install a floor plug between the doors because the wall exceeded the maximum spacing allotment. Additional info to this particular project, there was an outlet immediately to the side of each sliding glass door, so the distance in question was only the width of the two doors combined.
    The rule is a 12 foot rule for unbroken (by openings) walls for general purpose receptacles in dwelling units (residential occupancies) and six feet from openings in walls.

    210.52 is the article in the NEC that addresses this. There are closer spacings required for countertops and there are special rules and exceptions for special areas (foyers, hallways and bathrooms for example). The language changes depending upon the edition. Local ammendments can also alter the language. The original poster indicates he is in Wisconsin (location information on his profile).

    If you don't agree with the code who cares? You are allowed to have more frequent spacing, the code is a minimum requirement, it is NOT a design manual, and therefore it does not have any requirements for convenient receptacle placement. This is all up to the designer.

    The spacing is determined along a wall not an arc. Arcs, radius, etc. are used to determine proximity to hazards, for example the area near a sink that must be GFCI protected, etc. not in frequency or spacing of general purpose receptacles that is done by straight measurements where the wall meets the floor measured horizontally linear measurements at the floor so that no point on the wall is more than six feet from a receptacle. A sliding glass DOOR is not a wall it is an opening in the wall.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 12-17-2008 at 12:32 PM.

  2. #12
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    Jan 2008
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by scottgolf View Post
    I am wiring a new interior wall, how many outlets am I allowed off a junction box?
    The Original poster asked a vague question about outlets off a junction box for a newly constructed wall. Lets reserve assumptive discussions about receptacle placement (not the same thing! an outlet is not necessarily a receptacle), etc.unless and until the OP indicates THAT is what he is asking about and the characteristics of this newly constructed wall (kitchen, bathroom, free-standing garage, mobile home, commercial office, etc.)..

  3. #13
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    You are quite funny Blue. Finally, that sense of humor is coming out.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  4. #14
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    I believe that the common interpretation by most inspectors is "6 feet between" outlets, that is, hold a tape measure on one outlet and reel it out to any 6' diameter where it intersects a wall. Case in point, on one particular project that I was involved, we had two sliding glass doors that were side by side in a wall. We had to install a floor plug between the doors because the wall exceeded the maximum spacing allotment. Additional info to this particular project, there was an outlet immediately to the side of each sliding glass door, so the distance in question was only the width of the two doors combined.
    I'm on board with you on that one.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    I'm on board with you on that one.
    You know how it is, Ernie, some things you just can't learn from Google.
    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  6. #16
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shamokin, Pa.
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    645

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    You know how it is, Ernie, some things you just can't learn from Google.
    I can't fathom spacing outlets 12' apart. Nor would local inspectors allow it.
    Say you place table lamp 1 at an outlet. Table lamp 2 will be placed 12' away. Even if you would drag those two lamps together they are six feet away from each other. Not to mention placing a Wave radio or small TV in between the two lamps. How would that fit into all that and still be energized?.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    731

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with your 6' rule that allows outlets to be 12' apart.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    I believe that the common interpretation by most inspectors is "6 feet between" outlets, that is, hold a tape measure on one outlet and reel it out to any 6' diameter where it intersects a wall. Case in point, on one particular project that I was involved, we had two sliding glass doors that were side by side in a wall. We had to install a floor plug between the doors because the wall exceeded the maximum spacing allotment. Additional info to this particular project, there was an outlet immediately to the side of each sliding glass door, so the distance in question was only the width of the two doors combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    I'm on board with you on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Spruce View Post
    You know how it is, Ernie, some things you just can't learn from Google.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_Fergler View Post
    I can't fathom spacing outlets 12' apart. Nor would local inspectors allow it.
    Say you place table lamp 1 at an outlet. Table lamp 2 will be placed 12' away. Even if you would drag those two lamps together they are six feet away from each other. Not to mention placing a Wave radio or small TV in between the two lamps. How would that fit into all that and still be energized?.
    Unless its a local rule/ammendment that's just bogus. Name the jurisdiction, inspector and citation. Your not being able to fathom the general Code rule for regular dwelling units, I'll reserve comment. I'll also reserve comment on your personal attacks as well as your "belief" system(s). However, regarding the NEC you are not interpreting nor applying the the minimum rule correctly.

    Receptacles 12' apart allow for no point on the wall being greater than 6' from a receptacle: that's the NEC rule. Wisconsin uses the NEC. Portable Lamps (UL 153) have cords, if your cord is too short get an extension or replace the cord with a longer one. If you want a 3rd lamp closer to your lamp 1 location than you can accomodate by pluging it into receptacle 2 location, plug it into the same outlet location as your lamp 1, duplex receptacles are the norm. Your decorating concerns aside, the code is a minimum rule. It is not a design nor a decorating guide.

    2008 NEC:

    210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
    provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere re-
    ceptacle outlets. The receptacles required by this section
    shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:

    • (1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
    • (2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
    • (3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
    • (4) Located more than 1.7 in (5-1/2 ft) above the floor
    Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped
    with factory-installed receptacle outlets or outlets provided as
    a separate assembly by the manufacturer shall be permitted as
    the required outlet or outlets for the wall space utilized by
    such permanently installed heaters. Such receptacle outlets
    shall not be connected to the heater circuits.
    FPN: Listed baseboard heaters include instructions that may not permit their installation below receptacle outlets.
    (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room,
    dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom,
    bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of
    dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accor-
    dance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1)
    through (A)(3).

    (1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that no
    point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall
    space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet. (That's 12 ft apart!!!)

    (2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall

    include the following:
    • (1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings.
    • (2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
    • (3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as free-standing bar-type counters or railings
    (3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall
    not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle
    outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.


  8. #18
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    Jan 2008
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Since the Original Poster hasn't returned, continuing this discussion is akin to buying oats for a deceased equine.

    Enough flogging of the deceased equine, unless you're set upon macerating the proverbial deceased equine until it renders into soup.

    As for your continued arguments and personal attacks they are of the caliber and substance of equine excrement.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    I suffer from CDO ... Its like OCD, but in alphabetical order, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fayette County, Ohio
    Posts
    5,560

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Well, I can certainly understand why the OP hasn't returned. He asked a question about outlets, a commonly used term to refer to the receptacle, cover plate, mounting box, mounting hard ware, and associated wiring. It may not be a scientific, engineering, code, or nit picking individual part name but is prevalent in everyday language used by home owners and trades people alike just like saying they want a switch installed and meaning the switch, the box wiring etc.

    The NEC requirement is based on the assumption that electrical appliances will have standard 6 foot cords and no mater where you place it on the wall the cord should reach an outlet without and extension cord. That allows receptacles to be 12' apart. However, as I said before it doesn't matter what the NEC says, what matters is the interpretation and requirements of the locale jurisdictions and their inspectors. Most I have dealt with require the outlets to be no more than 6' apart and one even required them every 4'.
    Jack
    Be sure you live your life, because you are a long time dead.-Scottish Proverb

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