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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    2008 NEC:

    210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
    provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere re-
    ceptacle outlets. The receptacles required by this section
    shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:


    • (1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
    • (2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
    • (3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
    • (4) Located more than 1.7 in (5-1/2 ft) above the floor
    Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped
    with factory-installed receptacle outlets or outlets provided as
    a separate assembly by the manufacturer shall be permitted as
    the required outlet or outlets for the wall space utilized by
    such permanently installed heaters. Such receptacle outlets
    shall not be connected to the heater circuits.
    FPN: Listed baseboard heaters include instructions that may not permit their installation below receptacle outlets.
    (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room,
    dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom,
    bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of
    dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accor-
    dance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1)
    through (A)(3).

    (1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that no
    point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall
    space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.

    (2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall




    include the following:
    • (1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings.
    • (2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
    • (3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as free-standing bar-type counters or railings
    (3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall
    not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle
    outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.


  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Pacific Northwet
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    1,661

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    We saw that last time you posted it, BRP.

    Canuk, in your latest drawing, if you go down 5 feet from the corner you'll still be 7 feet from the nearest outlet. I'm no inspector, neither do I know one, and it's been 15 years since I cracked a code book, but I suspect an American inspector would make you add an outlet or a door on that wall somewhere between the corner and 4 feet down.

    Maybe it's allowed in Canada?

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    We saw that last time you posted it, BRP.

    Canuk, in your latest drawing, if you go down 5 feet from the corner you'll still be 7 feet from the nearest outlet. I'm no inspector, neither do I know one, and it's been 15 years since I cracked a code book, but I suspect an American inspector would make you add an outlet or a door on that wall somewhere between the corner and 4 feet down.

    Maybe it's allowed in Canada?
    Since obviously Canuk and JKirk both missed the orignal poster indicated LOCATION as Wisconsin, which last time I checked was still in the United States so their arguing the Canadian Codes which of course wouldn't be applicable so why either are jumping on this topic string is somewhat questionable in the first place....

    AND

    Apparently canuk didn't see it or simply missed what it (the Code) actually says, which is why I highlighted the applicable portions he was obviously overlooking, which answered his question; since he twice presented a drawing with an unbroken wall with a corner which was 14" long measured horizontally along the floor line, according to his drawing. If this drawing is supposed to be indoors in one of the areas highlighted in my post in a dwelling unit.

    Now if this was in a hallway, foyer, unfinished basement used for storage, a closet, garage, etc. it would be allowed (hallways & foyers are not measured along the wall but in the center line, occupiable or habital space is the issue), if it were other than a dwelling unit it would be allowed, if this is a bathroom it might be allowed. If there are fixed items not in the diagram it may or may not be allowed by the unammended NEC, local ammendments may alter.

    By the way what's on the bottom corner of that 12' wall? 4+ inches of drywall for the return? Another wall surface? a corner? a window? we don't know, and that horizontal line wraps around where ever....unless it is a break but you measure to that break point we don't know. Also one receptacle must be WITHIN for the rule you don't measure to the edge, and you only need ONE not TWO, so the entire average duplex does not have to be within, but ONE of them must be within, not just the edge, not the middle point of one, one completely within the limitations, and that is also where you start the measurement from. That's were most folks get into trouble - they'll be off having exceeded by 2 or more inches or forget that a floating wall has a side they failed to include in their measurement. Its also usually pretty darn tough to have an outlet at the END of a wall especially a floating one, there's usually structural considerations (masonry or stud) that make that rather difficult - so you end up having them moved in a bit.

    However as I first read the original post it appeared more as a fill question for a junction box or a question regarding the extension(s) of circuit(s) from a junction box to extend the electrical system to a newly constructed wall.
    Last edited by Blue RidgeParkway; 12-22-2008 at 10:55 AM.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue RidgeParkway View Post
    Since obviously Canuk and JKirk both missed the orignal poster indicated LOCATION as Wisconsin, which last time I checked was still in the United States so their arguing the Canadian Codes which of course wouldn't be applicable so why either are jumping on this topic string is somewhat questionable in the first place....

    AND

    Apparently canuk didn't see it or simply missed what it (the Code) actually says, which is why I highlighted the applicable portions he was obviously overlooking, which answered his question; since he twice presented a drawing with an unbroken wall with a corner which was 14" long measured horizontally along the floor line, according to his drawing. If this drawing is supposed to be indoors in one of the areas highlighted in my post in a dwelling unit.

    Now if this was in a hallway, foyer, unfinished basement used for storage, a closet, garage, etc. it would be allowed (hallways & foyers are not measured along the wall but in the center line, occupiable or habital space is the issue), if it were other than a dwelling unit it would be allowed, if this is a bathroom it might be allowed. If there are fixed items not in the diagram it may or may not be allowed by the unammended NEC, local ammendments may alter.

    By the way what's on the bottom corner of that 12' wall? 4+ inches of drywall for the return? Another wall surface? a corner? a window? we don't know, and that horizontal line wraps around where ever....unless it is a break but you measure to that break point we don't know. Also one receptacle must be WITHIN for the rule you don't measure to the edge, and you only need ONE not TWO, so the entire average duplex does not have to be within, but ONE of them must be within, not just the edge, not the middle point of one, one completely within the limitations, and that is also where you start the measurement from. That's were most folks get into trouble - they'll be off having exceeded by 2 or more inches or forget that a floating wall has a side they failed to include in their measurement. Its also usually pretty darn tough to have an outlet at the END of a wall especially a floating one, there's usually structural considerations (masonry or stud) that make that rather difficult - so you end up having them moved in a bit.

    However as I first read the original post it appeared more as a fill question for a junction box or a question regarding the extension(s) of circuit(s) from a junction box to extend the electrical system to a newly constructed wall.
    As always it's a pleasure to come upon one of your warm , pleasant and comforting posts.

    The last time I checked and as you have posted yourself ..... this is an open public forum .... which shouldn't be questionable for anyone participating ( except for you and your miserable attitude ).

    No ....... I didn't miss where the OP is from also the fact of your reciting the NEC ( who could ) and I'm not arguing your NEC requirements .... simply pointing out there was a difference between the NEC and the CEC as to the number of devices allowed on a general circuit.


    I was simply asking a question with the illustration submitted.
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  5. #55
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    May 2008
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    I think we left the OP in the dust a long time ago.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    And to all a good night.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Great White North
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    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    I think we left the OP in the dust a long time ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by ed21 View Post
    And to all a good night.
    Yep ... you're right enough is enough
    "" an ounce of perception -- a pound of obscure "
    - Rush

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    109

    Default Re: outlets and junction box

    Welcome scottgolf.
    SPAM: never liked it from a can, can't stand it on a board forum. This board needs MODERATORS!

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