# outlets and junction box

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• 12-15-2008, 04:08 PM
scottgolf
outlets and junction box
I am wiring a new interior wall, how many outlets am I allowed off a junction box?
• 12-15-2008, 04:49 PM
Ernie_Fergler
Re: outlets and junction box
[QUOTE=scottgolf;43821]I am wiring a new interior wall, how many outlets am I allowed off a junction box?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but if you have to ask that, please hire a professional.
• 12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Fencepost
Re: outlets and junction box
As many as you want. Outlets don't USE electricity; they only transmit it.

What you really need to consider is how much load is already on the existing circuit, how much you plan to add, and the capacity of the circuit.

The NEC requires that no point along a usable wall be more than 6 feet from an outlet. This is often referred to as the "6 foot rule", but in reality allows for outlets to be spaced as far as 12 feet apart. I'm not entirely sure what constitutes "usable wall space", but the fixed portion of a sliding glass door is considered usable wall space. There must be an outlet within 6 feet of the moving part of the door on the SAME SIDE as the fixed part. You can't cross an opening or doorway in figuring this out, and it has to be along the wall -- that is, the measurement bends around the corner rather than cutting diagonally across the floor.
• 12-15-2008, 07:48 PM
Blue RidgeParkway
Re: outlets and junction box
[quote=scottgolf;43821]I am wiring a new interior wall, how many [SIZE=4][U]outlets[/U][/SIZE] am I allowed [SIZE=4][B]off[/B][/SIZE] [U][B][SIZE=4]a junction box[/SIZE][/B][/U]?[/quote]

[quote=Ernie_Fergler;43829]Sorry, but if you have to ask that, please hire a professional.[/quote]

why even bother posting that?

scottgolf,

Lets get something clear, just what an "outlet" is. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. That's got to be contained you can't have that bare in the wall, so if you're asking if connections can be made not otherwise contained in a box, cabinet, etc. that would be NONE are allowed outside (off) the box, if that's what you are asking.

The receptacles, switches, and other devices have to be mounted in/on the boxes. The type and size of the box, that is the area within determine what can [U][B][SIZE=4]fill [/SIZE][/B][/U]the box. The conductors within and the devices you plan to mount also effect that. THERE ARE LIMITS to what you can fill a box with.

Can we assume this is the interior of your residence? or is it a detached structure? residential, commercial, agri?

Not sure which edition of the NEC (National Electrical Code) Wisc has adopted nor what local ammendments you might have but if it is the 2008 edition you could start your investigations in Article 314.

If you could be clearer in your question perhaps can be of more help.
• 12-15-2008, 08:06 PM
havanagranite
Re: outlets and junction box
[quote=Blue RidgeParkway;43849]why even bother posting that?

scottgolf,

Lets get something clear, just what an "outlet" is. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. That's got to be contained you can't have that bare in the wall, so if you're asking if connections can be made not otherwise contained in a box, cabinet, etc. that would be NONE are allowed outside (off) the box, if that's what you are asking.

The receptacles, switches, and other devices have to be mounted in/on the boxes. The type and size of the box, that is the area within determine what can [U][B][SIZE=4]fill [/SIZE][/B][/U]the box. The conductors within and the devices you plan to mount also effect that. THERE ARE LIMITS to what you can fill a box with.

Can we assume this is the interior of your residence? or is it a detached structure? residential, commercial, agri?

Not sure which edition of the NEC (National Electrical Code) Wisc has adopted nor what local ammendments you might have but if it is the 2008 edition you could start your investigations in Article 314.

If you could be clearer in your question perhaps can be of more help.[/quote]
Senior Member
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[IMG]https://advice.thisoldhouse.com/images/icons/icon8.gif[/IMG] [B]Re: Installing GFIC new outlets for old wiring[/B]
[COLOR=blue]Also could you explain please what it means to whip a new box?[/COLOR] When the inspector was describing the rules to install new box for the bathroom outlet he said to whip the new boxes from the one now behind the top of the wall with the light and shaver outlet to be covered with blank to the two new ones, one on the ceiling for new light and fan and one down to the vanity new GFIC outlet. What does whip the box mean? He must have explained it at the time because I wrote this down after in my notes but I don't remember what it ment. The Lowes guy had no idea what I was talking about.
[RIGHT][/RIGHT]

*** in less then one year a person can go from not knowing what it means to whip a box. to absolute authority on the very same subject. obviously isn't from experience. so poster take this into consideration before listening to brp. her experience is google and so can be easily misled
• 12-15-2008, 09:19 PM
bsum1
Re: outlets and junction box
[QUOTE=Blue RidgeParkway;43849]why even bother posting that?

scottgolf,

Lets get something clear, just what an "outlet" is. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. That's got to be contained you can't have that bare in the wall, so if you're asking if connections can be made not otherwise contained in a box, cabinet, etc. that would be NONE are allowed outside (off) the box, if that's what you are asking.

The receptacles, switches, and other devices have to be mounted in/on the boxes. The type and size of the box, that is the area within determine what can [U][B][SIZE=4]fill [/SIZE][/B][/U]the box. The conductors within and the devices you plan to mount also effect that. THERE ARE LIMITS to what you can fill a box with.

Can we assume this is the interior of your residence? or is it a detached structure? residential, commercial, agri?

Not sure which edition of the NEC (National Electrical Code) Wisc has adopted nor what local ammendments you might have but if it is the 2008 edition you could start your investigations in Article 314.

If you could be clearer in your question perhaps can be of more help.

#7 08-31-2008, 11:26 AM
Blue RidgeParkway
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 328

Re: Is the entrance cable undersized? (distribution panel)

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is this the same 1940s condo with the 20 amp 250v air conditioner outlet in the living room? seems weird that the two hot wires for the 20 amp 240 circuit aren't the same size.

don't buy until you've had an electrician in. even if you have a main at a central location for the building with a meter this panel should be able to completely shut down all the circuits with less than seven switch motions no main in there.

[COLOR="red"][B]not an electrician here[/B][/COLOR] but it looks like trouble on the 240 with 20 amp circuit breakers skinny wires and at least where we're at wire nuts aren't allowed in a panel but a gray nut on hot wires seems really bad thought those were just like green ones only for grounds? and the wall finish to the panel and where the wires all enter knockouts don't see the bushing lock nut romex clamp things that keep the romex cable from being pulled out and keep the panel sealed. how is this thing mounted? i don't see any mountings and the holes for mounting are all open! looks like spackle is the only thing holding this thing up? the other thing that that seems strange is white wires under one of those wire nuts that has been taped up with black tape like to change its color? ask an electrician here or there but i think that might only be allowed to do on switch paths not in a panel? doesn't seem right that two wires are on each lug feeding the panel for a residence, converted condo or not, like kentvw said and stranger that the colors are crossed, i pretty sure that not called entrance that called a feeder instead. seems weird that there is no big lug on the neutral for the feeder cable too. the bits of trim copper and brass screw sitting in the bottom of the subpanel isn't good either i think.

your inspector if he doesn't know or questions something should be telling you in his report to get a licensed electrician in to inspect the panel so you have to notify your realtor and the seller that you do not accept the inspection and want a specialty inspection immediately or else withdraw your offer so you can get estimate to make corrections if you need to do. if the inspector you hired took off the panel cover he should be able to tell more about the panel to you or else he had no business opening it up in the first place.

#10 08-31-2008, 12:53 PM

Blue RidgeParkway
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 328

Re: Is the entrance cable undersized? (distribution panel)

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[COLOR="red"]i don't say things clear[/COLOR] one of the yellow nuts you didn't point to has white wires on the left that are retaped black. there looks like two fat neutral wires on the bar prolly one for the feeder and one for the 220 circuit but don't see the big lug on top of the bar that takes two little screw positions thats what i ment. i don't think you can have parallel feeder for residential at least not here never flies esp cuz you have a 240v circuit so cant be 120 service right? two wires on one lug even if allows needs special kit piece either plate that has nested for each wire or a connect lug thing. the electricians on the site will know the right words for it when double luggling or double taps are allowed, dont know where you are but here is not allowed the wire nuts or double tapping except a double tap on grouwnd wire. the wires going in for hot dont look big enough and that the possible main is in a locked room not accessible to you makes the need for a main in your feeder panel since you can't turn off all the power to this residence with less than seven or six flips.

now you say they are going to add even more from this panel to make your deal so it seem you should get electrician now not later to tell you what to demand cuz this do not look good. how is this panel secured for installation cuz dont see any mount holes were used. big space in the wall to the right bottom edge where spackle fell off to.

[COLOR="Red"][B]remember i am no electrician[/B][/COLOR] one thing i do know for sure is that the panel schedule list must be complete and right your new picture of the list is a no brainer fail.

[/QUOTE]
4 months later her words are amazingly improved and she's an expert?
• 12-15-2008, 11:01 PM
Fencepost
Re: outlets and junction box
What's up with the cross-posted, ad-hominem attacks? It does nothing to further the cause of the original conversation. Take it outside.
• 12-16-2008, 07:34 PM
Ernie_Fergler
Re: outlets and junction box
[QUOTE=Fencepost;43840]As many as you want. Outlets don't USE electricity; they only transmit it.

What you really need to consider is how much load is already on the existing circuit, how much you plan to add, and the capacity of the circuit.

The NEC requires that no point along a usable wall be more than 6 feet from an outlet. This is often referred to as the "6 foot rule", but in reality allows for outlets to be spaced as far as 12 feet apart. I'm not entirely sure what constitutes "usable wall space", but the fixed portion of a sliding glass door is considered usable wall space. There must be an outlet within 6 feet of the moving part of the door on the SAME SIDE as the fixed part. You can't cross an opening or doorway in figuring this out, and it has to be along the wall -- that is, the measurement bends around the corner rather than cutting diagonally across the floor.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your 6' rule that allows outlets to be 12' apart.
• 12-17-2008, 01:54 AM
Fencepost
Re: outlets and junction box
If outlets are spaced 12 feet apart, the point halfway between the outlets is -- drum roll, please -- six feet from an outlet, satisfying the requirement that no point along the wall be more than six feet from an outlet. Anyway that's the way I read it, and most of the outlets in my house built in 2003 by a large construction company are between 6 and 12 feet apart measured horizontally (never more than 12), and none more than six feet from the nearest doorway.
• 12-17-2008, 03:35 AM
A. Spruce
Re: outlets and junction box
[quote=Fencepost;43957]If outlets are spaced 12 feet apart, the point halfway between the outlets is -- drum roll, please -- six feet from an outlet, satisfying the requirement that no point along the wall be more than six feet from an outlet. Anyway that's the way I read it, and most of the outlets in my house built in 2003 by a large construction company are between 6 and 12 feet apart measured horizontally (never more than 12), and none more than six feet from the nearest doorway.[/quote]

I believe that the common interpretation by most inspectors is "6 feet between" outlets, that is, hold a tape measure on one outlet and reel it out to any 6' diameter where it intersects a wall. Case in point, on one particular project that I was involved, we had two sliding glass doors that were side by side in a wall. We had to install a floor plug between the doors because the wall exceeded the maximum spacing allotment. Additional info to this particular project, there was an outlet immediately to the side of each sliding glass door, so the distance in question was only the width of the two doors combined.
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